internalaudit
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Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:34 am
Delivery Date: 09 Aug 2032

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:17 pm

webb14leafs wrote:My final bit of advice is that IF the Tesla is truly available for only $5K more than the Leaf, BUY IT under any circumstances and run victory laps around your lawn.

If it ends up costing $10K or more than the Leaf and 150 miles of range meets your needs. Buy the Leaf. If you need more than 150 miles, wait until 2019 and restart the decision making process.

Of course, if Toyota actually releases a solid state battery powered car in 2020 or 2021 with a reasonable price tag then everything goes out the window.



https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ion.98409/

The poll is missing the two concerns I have:

-ESA details especially if it will improve the 4 -year warranty on the DU and the 8-year 100k miles warranty on the battery)
-post-warranty / post-ESA repair costs / Right to Repair

I'm sure the more practical potential owners (who are coming from typically more reliable makes like Honda/Toyota/Nissan) and frequent MyNissanLeaf.com also have these concerns in mind but it's too soon to find out whether the less complex Model 3 will turn out to be quite reliable.

I don't really mind paying $10k more for a Tesla (really only for AWD and maybe longer range but that's another $9k) but it's the potential money pit issue (excessive labor rates , parts costs and reliability issues) that I'm afraid of. $10k over 15 years of reliable usage isn't that big of a deal for many of us.

Current stable includes 02 Civic 5MT, 11 Accord coupe 5AT and 16 RAV4 Hybrid. Besides depreciation, they have not been money pits at all.

SageBrush
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Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:22 pm

EatsShootsandLeafs wrote:
lorenfb wrote:
powersurge wrote:First, I do not think that the Tesla 3 will ever be produced... The company could not afford to produce it.


Not many profitably at less than $50K, and profitability even at that price is questionable! The company already
continually loses money selling both the MS & MX at over $90K. The M3 will cannibalize sales of the MS and
increase Tesla losses. Tesla's cost structure is much greater than GM's with the Bolt, with battery costs not that
different. So with the Bolt selling near break-even at around $35K, the M3 will be a loss-leader for Tesla.
You may be right.

He is not.

Musk has discussed profit margins on the finance calls.
As for the losses, they are related to growth and massive investments in the fremont factory, the Gigafactory, and the SC network.

A gamble to be sure, but one predicated on a 500k in about a year and double that by 2019-2020.

Contrast that to the LEAFs American compliance car of the year and it is easy to see why Lorenfb is twitchy.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

Joe6pack
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:57 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Oct 2012
Leaf Number: 025854

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:00 pm

I agree and disagree. GM can't make a $35K Bolt because they can't sell a $50K Bolt. There are apparently hundreds of thousands of people that want to spend $45K or more to buy a Model 3. They are essentially subsidizing the base model. What other model of car can have such a huge price delta between the base model and the premium model?


Well, the BMW 3-series for one. The delta between a base 320i and the M3 is enormous. Same probably goes for the Audi A4 and the RS4. On the other hand, I expect the quality of the two aforementioned brands to be much higher than the Tesla.
2012 Leaf SL leased October 4th, 2012
Braselton, GA

webb14leafs
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:43 am
Delivery Date: 27 Mar 2017

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:37 am

Well, the BMW 3-series for one. The delta between a base 320i and the M3 is enormous. Same probably goes for the Audi A4 and the RS4. On the other hand, I expect the quality of the two aforementioned brands to be much higher than the Tesla.


Good point. I guess I see the M3 and the RS4 almost as special release cars like a shelby cobra or hellcat, but I'm probably wrong in that thinking. I'm thinking more like comparing the Platimum edition of a Ford Fusion to to the SE model (or whatever it is).

hmmwv
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:27 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:33 pm

I have a question, obvious the Gen 2 LEAF is a significant upgrade, but is it the best value? I mean right now dealers are selling brand new Bolt EV LT at $27,991, for that kind of price why would anyone pick the new LEAF over a much longer ranged Bolt?
2013 LEAF SL w/Premium Pkg, Brilliant Silver, 45,113 miles, LeafSpy: 56.28 AHr, SOH 86%, Hx82.37% as of 11/20/2017, 11 bars, 27 QC, 1830 L2/L2

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Gold Member
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Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:02 pm

hmmwv wrote:I have a question, obvious the Gen 2 LEAF is a significant upgrade, but is it the best value? I mean right now dealers are selling brand new Bolt EV LT at $27,991, for that kind of price why would anyone pick the new LEAF over a much longer ranged Bolt?


Wow, that's a great price! Hopefully this will encourage Nissan to put some incentives on the leaf2. As for choosing a leaf2 over a bolt, from what I heard, interior volume, fit and finish, and front seat comfort. But I'd check out both vehicles in person before making a decision.
[2013 leaf traded for 2016 leaf S30:
build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
1 May 2017 - 7300 miles & 363 GIDs
6 Sep 2017 - 13k miles & 359 GIDs
26 Oct 2017 - 15.5k miles & 344 GIDs
26 Nov 2017 - 17.1k miles & 332 GIDs]

webb14leafs
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:43 am
Delivery Date: 27 Mar 2017

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:37 am

hmmwv wrote:I have a question, obvious the Gen 2 LEAF is a significant upgrade, but is it the best value? I mean right now dealers are selling brand new Bolt EV LT at $27,991, for that kind of price why would anyone pick the new LEAF over a much longer ranged Bolt?


That's a great deal. The cheapest within 500 miles of me is $32K. If you need the range and like the Bolt, then get it.

webb14leafs
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:43 am
Delivery Date: 27 Mar 2017

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:56 am

hmmwv wrote:I have a question, obvious the Gen 2 LEAF is a significant upgrade, but is it the best value? I mean right now dealers are selling brand new Bolt EV LT at $27,991, for that kind of price why would anyone pick the new LEAF over a much longer ranged Bolt?


FYI - I just searched and found them at that price. For all cases the advertised price includes the tax rebate. Dealers aren't supposed to include that in the advertised price, but some do.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12332
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Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:05 am

Because the LEAF will be available. ;)
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 27,000 miles.363GID Ahr 79.13Hx95.17%kwh28.1QCs238,L2's 251
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

internalaudit
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:34 am
Delivery Date: 09 Aug 2032

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:00 am

Anyone thinks this is possible or for the 60 kWh not to be too good damn expensive like the 221st (out of production) LR Model 3?

Why Nissan Has A Trick Up Its Sleeve With The New LEAF
https://cleantechnica.com/2017/09/16/ni ... -new-leaf/

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