webb14leafs
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:43 am
Delivery Date: 27 Mar 2017

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:24 am

internalaudit wrote:Anyone thinks this is possible or for the 60 kWh not to be too good damn expensive like the 221st (out of production) LR Model 3?

Why Nissan Has A Trick Up Its Sleeve With The New LEAF
https://cleantechnica.com/2017/09/16/ni ... -new-leaf/


I think it's possible. It seems like Nissan needs to have something splash-worthy that they're not divulging.

I agree with the part about Nissan lowering the price substantially after the first few months. The 2017 came down as low $23K locally.

Another question is if utilities will still offer the $10K off on the new model.

hmmwv
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:27 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:18 pm

webb14leafs wrote:
hmmwv wrote:I have a question, obvious the Gen 2 LEAF is a significant upgrade, but is it the best value? I mean right now dealers are selling brand new Bolt EV LT at $27,991, for that kind of price why would anyone pick the new LEAF over a much longer ranged Bolt?


FYI - I just searched and found them at that price. For all cases the advertised price includes the tax rebate. Dealers aren't supposed to include that in the advertised price, but some do.


True, I later realized that, however that's still a great price. I doubt the 2019 LEAF w/ 60kWh pack will be available for anything lower than $37,000. So in a year Nissan will have something more expensive that's in the same range league as the Bolt, which is available today at a cheaper price. I really like the LEAF and not currently planning on switching, but Nissan got to do something to stay competitive, for example, confirm active TMS in the 60kWh pack, and second keep the price at $35,000 or below.
2013 LEAF SL w/Premium Pkg, Brilliant Silver, 45,113 miles, LeafSpy: 56.28 AHr, SOH 86%, Hx82.37% as of 11/20/2017, 11 bars, 27 QC, 1830 L2/L2

webb14leafs
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:43 am
Delivery Date: 27 Mar 2017

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:42 am

hmmwv wrote:
webb14leafs wrote:
hmmwv wrote:I have a question, obvious the Gen 2 LEAF is a significant upgrade, but is it the best value? I mean right now dealers are selling brand new Bolt EV LT at $27,991, for that kind of price why would anyone pick the new LEAF over a much longer ranged Bolt?


FYI - I just searched and found them at that price. For all cases the advertised price includes the tax rebate. Dealers aren't supposed to include that in the advertised price, but some do.


True, I later realized that, however that's still a great price. I doubt the 2019 LEAF w/ 60kWh pack will be available for anything lower than $37,000. So in a year Nissan will have something more expensive that's in the same range league as the Bolt, which is available today at a cheaper price. I really like the LEAF and not currently planning on switching, but Nissan got to do something to stay competitive, for example, confirm active TMS in the 60kWh pack, and second keep the price at $35,000 or below.


Only $1500 off MSRP is not great price. They are selling in my area for as low as $32K without the Tax Rebate. You also include an awful lot of speculation in your argument. The cost of batteries is decreasing steadily, so it's just as easy to speculate that the extra 20kWh of storage could only cost $3-4K next year and Nissan could offer a "premium" version of the Leaf for around $36K - up against a "base" model M3 that STILL won't be available for new buyers in late 2018. (I hate to criticize the M3. It's a great car, but this is a simple fact.)

If the Bolt is for you - then buy it, but I wouldn't even compare it to the Leaf. In a few years it will be scrapped and remembered as the most uncomfortable car of all time. A total blunder by GM. What's the point of extended range if you can't fit anything in the freakin' car.

hmmwv
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:27 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:34 pm

webb14leafs wrote:Only $1500 off MSRP is not great price. They are selling in my area for as low as $32K without the Tax Rebate. You also include an awful lot of speculation in your argument. The cost of batteries is decreasing steadily, so it's just as easy to speculate that the extra 20kWh of storage could only cost $3-4K next year and Nissan could offer a "premium" version of the Leaf for around $36K - up against a "base" model M3 that STILL won't be available for new buyers in late 2018. (I hate to criticize the M3. It's a great car, but this is a simple fact.)

If the Bolt is for you - then buy it, but I wouldn't even compare it to the Leaf. In a few years it will be scrapped and remembered as the most uncomfortable car of all time. A total blunder by GM. What's the point of extended range if you can't fit anything in the freakin' car.


Yes I also found some Bolt that's $32k before tax credit, which made them even more attractive, because that'll be in the same price league as the 40kWh 2018 LEAF, and almost certainly cheaper than the 60kWh LEAF. No it's not for me, but I'm almost think its a deal too good to pass on, I was recommending the 40kWh LEAF to a friend but now I'm inclined to recommend the Bolt, his budget is about $25,000 (after tax incentive). I've sat in the Bolt but never driven one, is it really that uncomfortable and unpractical?

My personal commute is short enough that even with degradation my current LEAF can still serve me for the foreseeable future, by 2020 model year I probably gonna upgrade to a Model 3, provided it's available and price remains the same. Alternatively I'm thinking about a preowned i3 94Ah + Rex.
2013 LEAF SL w/Premium Pkg, Brilliant Silver, 45,113 miles, LeafSpy: 56.28 AHr, SOH 86%, Hx82.37% as of 11/20/2017, 11 bars, 27 QC, 1830 L2/L2

webb14leafs
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:43 am
Delivery Date: 27 Mar 2017

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:50 am

I've sat in the Bolt but never driven one, is it really that uncomfortable and unpractical?


It depends on who you ask. I was really excited to test drive the bolt, but the second I sat down in the front seat I thought to myself, "What the Hell????!!!" Some people think the narrow seat feels sporty, and if you're not too tall the headroom won't be an issue. I'm just surprised that GM did something so polarizing with those seats.

I also just think it's ironic to stress the range on such a small car. 80 miles is fine for the overwhelming majority of daily commutes and weekend errands. Most people want more range to accomodate weekend trips and potentially the great american vacation. Those sorts of trips require a suitcase or 3. Not gonna happen for most people in the Bolt.

jdcbomb
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 12:17 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2015

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:11 am

We seem to be off topic here, but I also test drove a fully loaded Bolt recently. I'm only 5'7 and have a medium / thin build. At first, the seat seemed fine, although it immediately felt a bit narrow. During the drive I noticed I had to sit in a very specific position to not feel uncomfortable in my back. After about 20 min of driving the Bolt, when I got out, I actually felt FATIGUED and my body was a bit sore! Once I returned back to my Leaf, the soreness went away quickly and I could sit in whatever position I wanted (leaning / slouching etc) and felt almost relaxed compared to the Bolt. The difference was so dramatic I ruled out purchasing the Bolt.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12332
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Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:46 am

I've sat in the Bolt but never driven one, is it really that uncomfortable and unpractical?


I have only just sat in one and it was VERY uncomfortable. But I think options could mitigate it. I am not completely out of the Bolt arena yet but I will definitely be waiting to see the 2018 version.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 27,000 miles.363GID Ahr 79.13Hx95.17%kwh28.1QCs238,L2's 251
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SageBrush
Posts: 1496
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Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:41 am

Every week I have 90 mile drives
Most months I have 250 - 300 mile drives each way
I have to factor in degradation and winter.

Since a 400 mile range EV is not in the cards for now, my choice narrows down to enough range for my weekly driving with winter and degradation included, and en-route charging for the 300 mile drives. That leaves Tesla standing.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

internalaudit
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:34 am
Delivery Date: 09 Aug 2032

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:02 am

SageBrush wrote:Every week I have 90 mile drives
Most months I have 250 - 300 mile drives each way
I have to factor in degradation and winter.

Since a 400 mile range EV is not in the cards for now, my choice narrows down to enough range for my weekly driving with winter and degradation included, and en-route charging for the 300 mile drives. That leaves Tesla standing.


As a current S owner, are you getting free charging on the 3 as well? :) Or will you be using the S to do those 300 mile one way drives?

You have no issues at all with your S with your CPO warranty almost expiring?

SageBrush
Posts: 1496
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:20 pm

internalaudit wrote:
SageBrush wrote:Every week I have 90 mile drives
Most months I have 250 - 300 mile drives each way
I have to factor in degradation and winter.

Since a 400 mile range EV is not in the cards for now, my choice narrows down to enough range for my weekly driving with winter and degradation included, and en-route charging for the 300 mile drives. That leaves Tesla standing.


As a current S owner, are you getting free charging on the 3 as well? :) Or will you be using the S to do those 300 mile one way drives?

You have no issues at all with your S with your CPO warranty almost expiring?

You are confusing me with someone else.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

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