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EVDRIVER
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Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:38 am

2011RedLeaf wrote:Based on the results of my previous uncooled Leaf battery; without liquid cooling, I will either wait 3 years for off lease with near-perfect battery, require an impressive durability warrantee, or buy a Bolt. I'm impressed with the ability of my Volt battery to daily charge/discharge full capacity for my 60 miles (1/4 gallon of gas) daily use; with no capacity loss.


Remember the Volt adjusts capacity looses to maintain a constant battery capacity as required by emissions regulations as the battery is part of the emissions control system. If it loses capacity you won't know so it's not accurate to say it does not lose capacity.

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EVDRIVER
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Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:40 am

SageBrush wrote:
DNAinaGoodWay wrote:By next year, Leaf will be pretty close to the 3.
.

Hahahhahahahahhahaha



I'll second that...

2011RedLeaf
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Leaf Number: 3999

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:46 am

Remember the Volt adjusts capacity looses to maintain a constant battery capacity as required by emissions regulations as the battery is part of the emissions control system. If it loses capacity you won't know so it's not accurate to say it does not lose capacity.

This reminds me of the conundrum I face daily in interacting with my wife:
"If a man speaks in the woods and there is no woman to hear it; is he still wrong and inconsiderate?"

I much prefer the Volt, in which I need to take on faith that I am having battery loss than my in which the loss was blaringly proven such that I needed to purchase something else to accomplish a 60 mile day without ability to recharge.. After my first experience, with Nissan, it will take equally blaring proof that the range is durable before my last Nissan is a different vehicle than my first.

SageBrush
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Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:38 am

EVDRIVER wrote:
2011RedLeaf wrote:Based on the results of my previous uncooled Leaf battery; without liquid cooling, I will either wait 3 years for off lease with near-perfect battery, require an impressive durability warrantee, or buy a Bolt. I'm impressed with the ability of my Volt battery to daily charge/discharge full capacity for my 60 miles (1/4 gallon of gas) daily use; with no capacity loss.


Remember the Volt adjusts capacity looses to maintain a constant battery capacity as required by emissions regulations as the battery is part of the emissions control system. If it loses capacity you won't know so it's not accurate to say it does not lose capacity.

I'm not familiar with any such regulation, although you may be right that the Volt is is eating into reserves to maintain range.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

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EVDRIVER
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Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:55 am

SageBrush wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:
2011RedLeaf wrote:Based on the results of my previous uncooled Leaf battery; without liquid cooling, I will either wait 3 years for off lease with near-perfect battery, require an impressive durability warrantee, or buy a Bolt. I'm impressed with the ability of my Volt battery to daily charge/discharge full capacity for my 60 miles (1/4 gallon of gas) daily use; with no capacity loss.


Remember the Volt adjusts capacity looses to maintain a constant battery capacity as required by emissions regulations as the battery is part of the emissions control system. If it loses capacity you won't know so it's not accurate to say it does not lose capacity.

I'm not familiar with any such regulation, although you may be right that the Volt is is eating into reserves to maintain range.


Since it has an ICE the battery is part of the emissions system and must have a specific warranty and thus they must keep the capacity as such, This was done on the first Volt, they do dip into the capacity via software management.

SageBrush
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Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:10 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:
Remember the Volt adjusts capacity looses to maintain a constant battery capacity as required by emissions regulations as the battery is part of the emissions control system. If it loses capacity you won't know so it's not accurate to say it does not lose capacity.

I'm not familiar with any such regulation, although you may be right that the Volt is is eating into reserves to maintain range.


Since it has an ICE the battery is part of the emissions system and must have a specific warranty and thus they must keep the capacity as such, This was done on the first Volt, they do dip into the capacity via software management.

Can you show a warranty that specifies a battery range for a certain time/miles ?
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

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EVDRIVER
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Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:07 pm

SageBrush wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:
SageBrush wrote:I'm not familiar with any such regulation, although you may be right that the Volt is is eating into reserves to maintain range.


Since it has an ICE the battery is part of the emissions system and must have a specific warranty and thus they must keep the capacity as such, This was done on the first Volt, they do dip into the capacity via software management.

Can you show a warranty that specifies a battery range for a certain time/miles ?


GM specifies the warranty it's pubic info.

edatoakrun
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Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:51 pm

cwerdna wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:https://pushevs.com/2017/12/29/nissan-s ... mpetition/

The slide is claimed to be from Nissan, and certainly looks plausible.

The slide was the same one shown and a pic taken of at https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... ater&ifg=1. I was at the same EVent (at Nissan's Sunnyvale research office) as the person (Steve) who posted that pic. The slide was put up by Brian, a Nissan North America marketing guy who flew in from NNA HQ in TN...

I was at Sunnyvale also, but do not have a photographic memory.

We should have a major clue as to the 2019 LEAF's actual EPA range will be, once the 150 (+ ?) mile EPA range of the 2018 "40 kWh" LEAF is revealed, perhaps in just a few days from now at San Diego.
no condition is permanent

GRA
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Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:01 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:
Since it has an ICE the battery is part of the emissions system and must have a specific warranty and thus they must keep the capacity as such, This was done on the first Volt, they do dip into the capacity via software management.

Can you show a warranty that specifies a battery range for a certain time/miles ?


GM specifies the warranty it's pubic info.

Er, presumably he means public info. To meet CARB regs, the Volt was required to qualify and warranty its emissions control system, which included the battery etc., for 10 yr./150k miles . They couldn't get the certification done in time for the 2011's introduction, so it didn't qualify as a TZEV. I can't remember if they were granted the cert as a mid-year thing or only on the 2012+ MYs. However, I'm not aware of any specific capacity requirement for the battery. Additionally, GM specifically denied that they held back any capacity when new, but given the lack of user-detectable degradation over a period of years, there's no other credible explanation.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GetOffYourGas
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Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:30 pm

Jedlacks wrote:So, do I drive this until I need a new pack, or get the 18 Leaf, or get hampered with the long charging of the Bolt at any DCQC, or do I wait until '19? Add to this the idea of picking up a used '18 for a bargain...


I'm not sure what you're saying about the Bolt here. You say it is "hampered" with long charging in the same sentence as talking about the 18 Leaf. How is it "hampered"? The Bolt charges at up to 55kW, assuming there is at least 160A available. According to Nissan, the '18 Leaf charges at up to 50kW. Put another way, Nissan claims 88 miles in 30 minutes while GM claims 90 miles in 30 minutes. That sounds like the same to me...
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

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