Evoforce wrote: internalaudit wrote:
You are listening to the worst of the worst. Tesla has been excellent on doing service for me and countless others and maintains a high customer service rating. While I agree nothing is perfect, Tesla has pulled through for me with flying colors. Many things that they could charge for, they have repaired as goodwill. I do agree with you on the right to repair and Tesla needs to open this up to all.
I personally own two Leaf SL's and a Tesla S, and my son a Chevy Bolt LT that he traded his Leaf to get. I would personally not buy another Leaf until they improve their battery longevity. A thermal management system would probably help a lot but a 2018 Leaf does not have that. Will a 2019 Leaf have a better battery and TMS system? We will see... The Leaf is a great car in every other way, except battery longevity and rapid depreciation because of it.
They can afford to offer excellent customer service (aka bleed money) to 100k customers but not sure at 400-500k customers.
Margins are fatter on the S and X and if I was EM, I would definitely not screw these customers over. But there's only so much the car company can do once multiples of the current cars are on the road and quality is still a crapshoot.
At the end of the day, it's nice to drive a BEV but if repair costs post-warranty or ESA will be a big issue (and I think it can), I'd rather wait for the tried and true Toyota BEVs. How much longer do I have to wait, five years at the most, spending $10-15k CAD in gasoline over those years? That's not such a bad proposition because most BEVs will have depreciated more than that over the five years.
It makes sense for people who need a new car to get a BEV but for those with decently reliable ICEV like me, we might as well play the waiting game and hopefully the 2019 Leaf will have TMS.
Again though, you are taking the worst of the worst to heart. The majority of Tesla owners are very happy. I believe that most reputable companies will strive to keep their customers happy. Taking a stance that a lessor priced car owner won't or can't get the same good service is a negative that may play well to justify your choices, but probably will have little to to with reality.
To me, your choice of ICEV actually reflects a underlying pessimism towards BEV in the first place. You may have valid reasons that fit for you, but I personally would not have an ICEV, as I view it as somewhat of a crutch or the inability to be "all in" so to speak for whatever reason. My opinion is that Toyota really doesn't want to be "all in" either. They seem to like the government money to dabble with the fuel cell technology. But with my having those opinions, I am still glad that people have the choice of ICEV to help them transition to full BEV in the future and to help some with the air quality now. I also understand that it seems prudent to continue to use your perfectly good ICEV a little more into the future to give yourself more future choices in getting your BEV.
I'm not taking the worst of the worst. There really is no Right to Repair which will make ownership post-warranty/ESA expensive. That is reality and has very little to do with the majority of Tesla owners being very happy because their vehicles are probably still under warranty or under the ESA or because many of them choose to lease or dump their cars before the warranty expires. Although we are making a decent living way above the median household income, I have no intention of tossing my cars after 3-4 years of service because that's a lot of depreciation / money being thrown away. I have perused the Model S subforum on TMC and I've come across owners complaining and although they may be the minority, it doesn't mean there aren't real reliability issues with the vehicles.
If Tesla really wants its customers to be happy post warranty/ESA, then why not open the Right to Repair instead of just talk about it in Feb/March 2017? If it really wants its customers happy, they better strive to improve efficiency (maybe with additional M3 volume???) so its revenue neutral service center repair jobs doesn't cost a lot more than a Honda or Toyota repair job? Once Tesla does that, it will assuage would be buyers like myself that I'm setting myself up for a minor financial disaster once ESA is up -- expensive repair jobs on the M3 or very low resale value as a result of the needed repairs?
We've got to be kidding ourselves if we think Tesla builds really reliable vehicles. Even someone on a Canadian forum admitted his DU on his CPO S had to be replaced and a few other things.
In my case I have ICEV that are currently quite reliable but I'm just fortunate that I'm at the juncture where I may need a third car to replace my faithful and reliable 02 Civic because our eldest child will be going to university next year. We won't know until May which program she will be getting into (which city and how far away) so keeping our three ICEVs is the most sensible thing to do. I have the luxury of waiting because I'm not the type who would sell a perfectly fine ICEV just to get on the BEV bandwagon because my wife does need to drive 130 miles round trip almost every week so for now there are no BEV that allow for that travel in the winter except for the expensive Tesla's and the Chevy Bolt, which I have no interest in. I mean, what's the point of me getting a BEV where my wife can't make it back home during winter, which is between three to five months here in Toronto? The ICEVs I have besides the RAV4 Hybrid have depreciated so much that they aren't costing me much besides the regular maintenance, which for some I already DIY.
I don't disdain a person just because he/she drives a vehicle with tailpipe emissions. I disdain self-centered people who are toxic to their colleagues (back stabbing, taking credits, giving unjustified poor performance evaluations to direct reports, etc.) whether they drive a ICEV, BEV or walk to work.
Heck, if I really need another vehicle, maybe I'll consider the 2019 Honda Insight if it gets better than 60 MPG. To me everything is financially driven based on cost of ownership. Our government can force cleaner air by making truck and bus operators run cleaner instead of belching smog at every step of the gas pedal and make sure VW doesn't make a better/subtler defeat device because I'm sure they can. Takes them one or two years to find a solution without ammonia.
They must really have geniuses at their engineering department.