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Nubo
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Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:47 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:... I still think TMS is overblown and wish it was an option. I can live without it. ;)


It may be that the new chemistry cannot live without it. Which would unfortunately may a step away from the very stable (in terms of thermal runaway) gen1 LEAF chemistry.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

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EVDRIVER
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Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:37 pm

Nubo wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:... I still think TMS is overblown and wish it was an option. I can live without it. ;)


It may be that the new chemistry cannot live without it. Which would unfortunately may a step away from the very stable (in terms of thermal runaway) gen1 LEAF chemistry.


I think they will need it for 100K useful charging. At least where you can find it to be useful and reasonable. :shock:

lorenfb
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Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:38 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:
Nubo wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:... I still think TMS is overblown and wish it was an option. I can live without it. ;)


It may be that the new chemistry cannot live without it. Which would unfortunately may a step away from the very stable (in terms of thermal runaway) gen1 LEAF chemistry.


I think they will need it for 100K useful charging. At least where you can find it to be useful and reasonable. :shock:


Or adjust the charging taper as a function of battery & ambient temperatures, and possibly the thermal time constant of the battery.
Leaf SL MY 9/13: 70K miles, 49 Ahrs, 5.1 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 charges to 100% > 1000, max battery temp < 95F (35C), min discharge point > 20 Ahrs

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:09 pm

lorenfb wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:
Nubo wrote:
It may be that the new chemistry cannot live without it. Which would unfortunately may a step away from the very stable (in terms of thermal runaway) gen1 LEAF chemistry.


I think they will need it for 100K useful charging. At least where you can find it to be useful and reasonable. :shock:


Or adjust the charging taper as a function of battery & ambient temperatures, and possibly the thermal time constant of the battery.


custom charge levels would solve a lot of it
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rcm4453
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Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:36 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
lorenfb wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:
I think they will need it for 100K useful charging. At least where you can find it to be useful and reasonable. :shock:


Or adjust the charging taper as a function of battery & ambient temperatures, and possibly the thermal time constant of the battery.


custom charge levels would solve a lot of it


So Nissan did away with the 80% battery saver option for EPA reasons, I wonder how Tesla is able to have user selectable charge levels without it interfering with EPA ratings? So knowing this why doesn't Nissan do the same thing? Might help mitigate so many warranty battery replacement claims.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:45 pm

Nissan got dinged because they used the wording "battery saving" or "Long Life" or something like that in 2013. Tesla says nothing about battery life. GM cleverly calls it "Hilltop Reserve." Since then Nissan has just plain refused to make the obvious adjustment in wording, instead punishing us for their cars' shortcomings. If the 40kwh pack is anything like the 30kwh pack in longevity, they will see a sales nosedive in 2019 or 2020.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
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PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

rcm4453
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Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:40 pm

Doesn't it make financial sense for Nissan to word it differently rather then let their batteries degrade prematurely? I just don't understand the business model of doing a bunch of battery warranty replacements instead of implementing a "hilltop reserve" mode like Chevy Bolt does? I could see Nissan not caring if they didn't have a capacity warranty.

So do we know for sure that the 2018 Leaf doesn't have any type of "battery saver" setting?

LeftieBiker
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Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:16 pm

Orient Express has told us no charge limiter (he implied it was archaic) for the 2018. There isn't actually much strong evidence that charging to 100% normally is the main factor in Nissan pack degradation. It's just that it's well known that lithium batteries don't like to sit at 100% charge for long periods.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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EVDRIVER
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Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:37 am

LeftieBiker wrote:Orient Express has told us no charge limiter (he implied it was archaic) for the 2018. There isn't actually much strong evidence that charging to 100% normally is the main factor in Nissan pack degradation. It's just that it's well known that lithium batteries don't like to sit at 100% charge for long periods.


Charged to 100% every time with no degradation of any kind after three plus years. Heat and letting it sit are the issues.

rcm4453
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Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:09 am

The letting it sit at 100% is why a charge limiter or battery saver option would be nice. So what do you do when your car reaches 100% in the middle of the night while you're sleeping? That means it will sit at 100% for hours on end, not good. Not many people are going to set charge timers every day either. Makes no sense to not have a charge limiting option like Tesla or Bolt.

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