edatoakrun
Posts: 4756
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

You don't always get what you want...in your Gen two LEAF

Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:32 am

A thread to post the features and options you'd like in the Gen two, but probably won't get.

My own wish list, with estimated probabilities:

1) Gen two base pack compatibility with Gen one battery pack.

Possibility of being announced on 9/5: 10%

Possibility of being announced eventually: 33%

I really don't care much whatever the Gen two pack available capacity is, assuming it is between 30 and 40 kWh, and the LEAF is priced accordingly.

Continuing production of the 24/30 pack architecture, while increasing available capacity incrementally, is an obvious way to contain costs.

My own view is that Nissan would be better off leaving the small range-anxious-market for TSLA and GM to fight over, and concentrate on building the best BEV, which given current battery costs and energy densities, is in this range for mass-market vehicles.

And I hope Nissan is planning to increase gen two production to much higher levels than we saw in the gen one.

Backwards compatibility with gen one 24/30 packs could be a nice bonus, even though I doubt many Gen one owners would ever end up actually paying for one.

2) All Wheel Drive:


Possibility of being announced on 9/5: 1%

Possibility of being announced eventually: 25%

Much more likely to debut with the planned LEAF-based crossover, but Nissan just might want to allow LEAF buyers to check that option.

AWD on a BEV shouldn't cost too much, and increases efficiency, which is why it will probably be standard equipment on virtually all BEVs in higher price classes in the future.

3) e-Power option:

Possibility of being announced on 9/5: 1%

Possibility of being announced eventually: 10%

Again, more likely to be introduced in an upcoming crossover or large SUV or truck, than in the LEAF, which has been so strongly promoted as a pure BEV.

Since the entire drive-train is already in production in the E Note, it would certainly be a less-expensive and much-longer-range-range-extender than an over-sized battery pack option.

And I can't help wondering what looks like an increase in under-the-hood-room in the Gen two will be used for?

Maybe...

4) Convenient spare tire location...under the hood?

Possibility of being announced on 9/5: 10%

Possibility of being announced eventually: 10%

The only flatbed ride my LEAF ever needed was from a sidewall tear from a deteriorated pavement edge.

Most LEAF owners in urban/suburban areas are probably better-off going without, but if you live in a rural area, or where there is no reliable cell reception, a spare is a really nice thing to have.

Usable as frunk space, for the majority who only want to carry four wheels and tires.

5) Ability to charge to levels other than 100%.

Possibility of being announced on 9/5: 10%

Possibility of being announced eventually: 10%

Preferably, by allowing end charge levels anywhere from 10% to 90%. (Thanks for the suggestion, WetEV)
Last edited by edatoakrun on Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RonDawg
Posts: 2715
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:46 am
Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 027089
Location: SoCal

Re: You don't always get what you want...in your Gen two LEAF

Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:50 am

I don't necessarily agree with your take on AWD (speaking as someone who does have an AWD ICEV). In poor traction situations it's great for acceleration, but as often mentioned it doesn't necessarily help you steer any better and certainly doesn't help you brake any better than 2WD car with proper winter tires.

The big downside with AWD is added weight, which cuts into range.

Yes it might become standard on more expensive BEVs, but you're seeing that on some performance cars now. It makes a difference on dry pavement when you're trying to put hundreds of horsepower down to the ground, on a mass-market EV won't make much of a difference in the dry.

Weight (and cost savings) is why we likely will not see spare tires on the next Leaf, whether mounted normally or under the hood like an old Subaru. Lots of ICEVs don't have them now, just a can of fix a flat and an inflator.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar on 11/21/2015 at 26,435 miles.
Lease returned on 12/23/2015. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL

edatoakrun
Posts: 4756
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: You don't always get what you want...in your Gen two LEAF

Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:30 am

RonDawg wrote:...The big downside with AWD is added weight, which cuts into range...

True, for an ICEV.

But the increase in weight in a BEV should be relatively minor, since the rear motor(s) can be quite small, and placed in or near the hubs.

And by varying the maximum-efficiency road speed of the front and rear axles, total efficiency can be increased significantly by shifting propulsion to the more efficient axle, as your speed changes.

AW regen can make a further contribution to efficiency.

So, adding AWD to a LEAF would likely increase single-charge range, though not to the same extent it does in a RWD BEV like a Tesla.

RonDawg wrote:...Weight (and cost savings) is why we likely will not see spare tires on the next Leaf...

Agreed.

But that doesn't mean the designers have to disregard the fact that a minority of LEAF owners want a spare, and creating space for one could be accomplished, without reducing the LEAF's utility for those who don't want one.

How many threads are there on this subject on this forum, with no satisfactory solutions?
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DanCar
Posts: 954
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:00 am
Delivery Date: 10 Mar 2013
Location: SF Bay area, 94043

Re: You don't always get what you want...in your Gen two LEAF

Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:42 am

e-nv200 with dual drive, driverless, and different battery pack range options. I dream of getting a long range version, but the practical person in my will probably go for the cheapest.
If Nissan doesn't deliver then maybe FCA will with the Chrysler Portal in two years.
http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/c ... 100936358/
Chance of happening: 0%

WetEV
Posts: 1786
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: You don't always get what you want...in your Gen two LEAF

Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:19 am

Ability to charge to levels other than 100%.

Call it breakfast mode, optional charge level(s), hilltop mode, solar power charging allowance. They can even call it "late to dinner". Just give me a way to charge to some level in the range of 70% to 90% by default.

A forward looking GOM

If a trip is entered, then use estimated speeds and altitude changes to give a better range estimate. Bonus points for predictive routes. More bonus points for using predicted weather.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

internalaudit
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:34 am
Delivery Date: 09 Aug 2032

Re: You don't always get what you want...in your Gen two LEAF

Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:19 pm

I just want the following and I don't mind waiting a year or two:

    heated steering wheel and front seats
    adaptive cruise control
    automatice emergency braking
    250 mile range
    Tesla-like battery degradation

and
possibly AWD

User avatar
evnow
Moderator
Posts: 11430
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 25 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 303
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: You don't always get what you want...in your Gen two LEAF

Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:54 pm

edatoakrun wrote:1) Gen two base pack comparability with Gen one battery pack.

Did you mean compatibility ?

My own view is that Nissan would be better off leaving the small range-anxious-market for TSLA and GM to fight over, and concentrate on building the best BEV, which given current battery costs and energy densities, is in this range for mass-market vehicles.


All the surveys and the fact Model 3 got so many reservations contradict your view.

If Nissan produced a $35k 220 mile BEV with quick charging, we would say it is a fantastic value. Only reason you don't want to acknowledge that about Model 3 is your irrational hatred for Tesla.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to ?

edatoakrun
Posts: 4756
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: You don't always get what you want...in your Gen two LEAF

Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:35 pm

evnow wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:1) Gen two base pack comparability with Gen one battery pack.

Did you mean compatibility ?...

Yes, corrected.

...="evnow"
="edatoakrun"My own view is that Nissan would be better off leaving the small range-anxious-market for TSLA and GM to fight over, and concentrate on building the best BEV, which given current battery costs and energy densities, is in this range for mass-market vehicles.

All the surveys and the fact Model 3 got so many reservations contradict your view.

If Nissan produced a $35k 220 mile BEV with quick charging, we would say it is a fantastic value...

Well, if it were an econobox like the currently available (discounted) ~$35k Bolt, or or so heavily decontented as to be undesirable, as looks to be the case if and when a ~$35k model 3 is ever introduced, I wouldn't say so.

="evnow"...Only reason you don't want to acknowledge that about Model 3 is your irrational hatred for Tesla...

You may have noticed that I don't usually respond to offensive comments.

This is because I generally see them only as admissions of impotence by the parties hurling the insults, requiring no reply.

But your comment, IMO, may be in conflict with your responsibilities as a moderator:

...Generally, moderators are present to prevent users from going off-topic or posting abusive or offensive material...

faq.php#f4r1
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RonDawg
Posts: 2715
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:46 am
Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 027089
Location: SoCal

Re: You don't always get what you want...in your Gen two LEAF

Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:48 pm

edatoakrun wrote:But the increase in weight in a BEV should be relatively minor, since the rear motor(s) can be quite small, and placed in or near the hubs.


Electric motors at the hub increases unsprung weight, which negatively affects ride quality. Even a small amount of unsprung weight has a surprising effect, so much so that wheels can make a difference in ride quality,

And by varying the maximum-efficiency road speed of the front and rear axles, total efficiency can be increased significantly by shifting propulsion to the more efficient axle, as your speed changes.


If you're driving a Porsche 918 or the new NSX, yes. But those vehicles have the price tags for it. And it's done not for efficiency purposes, but to get the most acceleration.

On a Leaf? Not worth it.


RonDawg wrote:But that doesn't mean the designers have to disregard the fact that a minority of LEAF owners want a spare, and creating space for one could be accomplished, without reducing the LEAF's utility for those who don't want one.


MINORITY of owners wanting one is why a mass-market manufacturer like Nissan won't bother with a mass-market car like the Leaf unless government regulation forces them to. This is an industry where they feel it's worth it to save less than a dollar per car on a design change, even at the detriment of usability or reliability.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar on 11/21/2015 at 26,435 miles.
Lease returned on 12/23/2015. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL

edatoakrun
Posts: 4756
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: You don't always get what you want...in your Gen two LEAF

Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:38 am

RonDawg wrote:But that doesn't mean the designers have to disregard the fact that a minority of LEAF owners want a spare, and creating space for one could be accomplished, without reducing the LEAF's utility for those who don't want one.

You might want to fix that attribution, RonDawg.

And remember, this thread is specifically:

...to post the features and options you'd like in the Gen two, but probably won't get...

As I've already said, I don't think there's much chance of the Gen two having those features I said I would like, so you're wasting effort arguing whether it will.

There may be no surprises From Nissan when full details of the Gen two are announced, either on Tuesday or some time later, but maybe someone who posts their desires here will get lucky...
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