You don't always get what you want...in your Gen two LEAF

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edatoakrun

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Location
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A thread to post the features and options you'd like in the Gen two, but probably won't get.

My own wish list, with estimated probabilities:

1) Gen two base pack compatibility with Gen one battery pack.

Possibility of being announced on 9/5: 10%

Possibility of being announced eventually: 33%

I really don't care much whatever the Gen two pack available capacity is, assuming it is between 30 and 40 kWh, and the LEAF is priced accordingly.

Continuing production of the 24/30 pack architecture, while increasing available capacity incrementally, is an obvious way to contain costs.

My own view is that Nissan would be better off leaving the small range-anxious-market for TSLA and GM to fight over, and concentrate on building the best BEV, which given current battery costs and energy densities, is in this range for mass-market vehicles.

And I hope Nissan is planning to increase gen two production to much higher levels than we saw in the gen one.

Backwards compatibility with gen one 24/30 packs could be a nice bonus, even though I doubt many Gen one owners would ever end up actually paying for one.

2) All Wheel Drive:


Possibility of being announced on 9/5: 1%

Possibility of being announced eventually: 25%

Much more likely to debut with the planned LEAF-based crossover, but Nissan just might want to allow LEAF buyers to check that option.

AWD on a BEV shouldn't cost too much, and increases efficiency, which is why it will probably be standard equipment on virtually all BEVs in higher price classes in the future.

3) e-Power option:

Possibility of being announced on 9/5: 1%

Possibility of being announced eventually: 10%

Again, more likely to be introduced in an upcoming crossover or large SUV or truck, than in the LEAF, which has been so strongly promoted as a pure BEV.

Since the entire drive-train is already in production in the E Note, it would certainly be a less-expensive and much-longer-range-range-extender than an over-sized battery pack option.

And I can't help wondering what looks like an increase in under-the-hood-room in the Gen two will be used for?

Maybe...

4) Convenient spare tire location...under the hood?

Possibility of being announced on 9/5: 10%

Possibility of being announced eventually: 10%

The only flatbed ride my LEAF ever needed was from a sidewall tear from a deteriorated pavement edge.

Most LEAF owners in urban/suburban areas are probably better-off going without, but if you live in a rural area, or where there is no reliable cell reception, a spare is a really nice thing to have.

Usable as frunk space, for the majority who only want to carry four wheels and tires.

5) Ability to charge to levels other than 100%.

Possibility of being announced on 9/5: 10%

Possibility of being announced eventually: 10%

Preferably, by allowing end charge levels anywhere from 10% to 90%. (Thanks for the suggestion, WetEV)
 
I don't necessarily agree with your take on AWD (speaking as someone who does have an AWD ICEV). In poor traction situations it's great for acceleration, but as often mentioned it doesn't necessarily help you steer any better and certainly doesn't help you brake any better than 2WD car with proper winter tires.

The big downside with AWD is added weight, which cuts into range.

Yes it might become standard on more expensive BEVs, but you're seeing that on some performance cars now. It makes a difference on dry pavement when you're trying to put hundreds of horsepower down to the ground, on a mass-market EV won't make much of a difference in the dry.

Weight (and cost savings) is why we likely will not see spare tires on the next Leaf, whether mounted normally or under the hood like an old Subaru. Lots of ICEVs don't have them now, just a can of fix a flat and an inflator.
 
RonDawg said:
...The big downside with AWD is added weight, which cuts into range...
True, for an ICEV.

But the increase in weight in a BEV should be relatively minor, since the rear motor(s) can be quite small, and placed in or near the hubs.

And by varying the maximum-efficiency road speed of the front and rear axles, total efficiency can be increased significantly by shifting propulsion to the more efficient axle, as your speed changes.

AW regen can make a further contribution to efficiency.

So, adding AWD to a LEAF would likely increase single-charge range, though not to the same extent it does in a RWD BEV like a Tesla.

RonDawg said:
...Weight (and cost savings) is why we likely will not see spare tires on the next Leaf...
Agreed.

But that doesn't mean the designers have to disregard the fact that a minority of LEAF owners want a spare, and creating space for one could be accomplished, without reducing the LEAF's utility for those who don't want one.

How many threads are there on this subject on this forum, with no satisfactory solutions?
 
e-nv200 with dual drive, driverless, and different battery pack range options. I dream of getting a long range version, but the practical person in my will probably go for the cheapest.
If Nissan doesn't deliver then maybe FCA will with the Chrysler Portal in two years.
http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/chrysler/2017/04/26/marchionne-portal-concept-in-2-years/100936358/
Chance of happening: 0%
 
Ability to charge to levels other than 100%.

Call it breakfast mode, optional charge level(s), hilltop mode, solar power charging allowance. They can even call it "late to dinner". Just give me a way to charge to some level in the range of 70% to 90% by default.

A forward looking GOM

If a trip is entered, then use estimated speeds and altitude changes to give a better range estimate. Bonus points for predictive routes. More bonus points for using predicted weather.
 
I just want the following and I don't mind waiting a year or two:

  • heated steering wheel and front seats
    adaptive cruise control
    automatice emergency braking
    250 mile range
    Tesla-like battery degradation

and
possibly AWD
 
edatoakrun said:
1) Gen two base pack comparability with Gen one battery pack.
Did you mean compatibility ?

My own view is that Nissan would be better off leaving the small range-anxious-market for TSLA and GM to fight over, and concentrate on building the best BEV, which given current battery costs and energy densities, is in this range for mass-market vehicles.

All the surveys and the fact Model 3 got so many reservations contradict your view.

If Nissan produced a $35k 220 mile BEV with quick charging, we would say it is a fantastic value. Only reason you don't want to acknowledge that about Model 3 is your irrational hatred for Tesla.
 
evnow said:
edatoakrun said:
1) Gen two base pack comparability with Gen one battery pack.
Did you mean compatibility ?...
Yes, corrected.

...="evnow"
="edatoakrun"My own view is that Nissan would be better off leaving the small range-anxious-market for TSLA and GM to fight over, and concentrate on building the best BEV, which given current battery costs and energy densities, is in this range for mass-market vehicles.
All the surveys and the fact Model 3 got so many reservations contradict your view.

If Nissan produced a $35k 220 mile BEV with quick charging, we would say it is a fantastic value...
Well, if it were an econobox like the currently available (discounted) ~$35k Bolt, or or so heavily decontented as to be undesirable, as looks to be the case if and when a ~$35k model 3 is ever introduced, I wouldn't say so.

="evnow"...Only reason you don't want to acknowledge that about Model 3 is your irrational hatred for Tesla...
You may have noticed that I don't usually respond to offensive comments.

This is because I generally see them only as admissions of impotence by the parties hurling the insults, requiring no reply.

But your comment, IMO, may be in conflict with your responsibilities as a moderator:

...Generally, moderators are present to prevent users from going off-topic or posting abusive or offensive material...
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/faq.php#f4r1
 
edatoakrun said:
But the increase in weight in a BEV should be relatively minor, since the rear motor(s) can be quite small, and placed in or near the hubs.

Electric motors at the hub increases unsprung weight, which negatively affects ride quality. Even a small amount of unsprung weight has a surprising effect, so much so that wheels can make a difference in ride quality,

And by varying the maximum-efficiency road speed of the front and rear axles, total efficiency can be increased significantly by shifting propulsion to the more efficient axle, as your speed changes.

If you're driving a Porsche 918 or the new NSX, yes. But those vehicles have the price tags for it. And it's done not for efficiency purposes, but to get the most acceleration.

On a Leaf? Not worth it.


RonDawg said:
But that doesn't mean the designers have to disregard the fact that a minority of LEAF owners want a spare, and creating space for one could be accomplished, without reducing the LEAF's utility for those who don't want one.

MINORITY of owners wanting one is why a mass-market manufacturer like Nissan won't bother with a mass-market car like the Leaf unless government regulation forces them to. This is an industry where they feel it's worth it to save less than a dollar per car on a design change, even at the detriment of usability or reliability.
 
RonDawg said:
But that doesn't mean the designers have to disregard the fact that a minority of LEAF owners want a spare, and creating space for one could be accomplished, without reducing the LEAF's utility for those who don't want one.
You might want to fix that attribution, RonDawg.

And remember, this thread is specifically:

...to post the features and options you'd like in the Gen two, but probably won't get...
As I've already said, I don't think there's much chance of the Gen two having those features I said I would like, so you're wasting effort arguing whether it will.

There may be no surprises From Nissan when full details of the Gen two are announced, either on Tuesday or some time later, but maybe someone who posts their desires here will get lucky...
 
edatoakrun said:
But your comment, IMO, may be in conflict with your responsibilities as a moderator:

...Generally, moderators are present to prevent users from going off-topic or posting abusive or offensive material...
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/faq.php#f4r1

Actually your Tesla comments are clearly in the flame category. Your posting history suggests what I wrote was correct. BTW, that comes neither in the offensive nor abusive category. Those generally mean discussion that is not civil.

Some years back we also decided (as a community) to have light moderation. Otherwise most of your FUD about Tesla would have been deleted.
 
If Nissan wants to continue offering 24kw packs my guess is they would need to couple them with an e85 epower solution as an option.

They could then compete with the I3 and Volt , an e85 fuel cell if 50% eff or more would level the Prius competition
 
edatoakrun said:
evnow said:
edatoakrun said:
You may have noticed that I don't usually respond to offensive comments.

This is because I generally see them only as admissions of impotence by the parties hurling the insults, requiring no reply.
Do you take issue with the accusation that your hatred of tesla is irrational; do you think it is rational? Or, do you feel you don't hate tesla? At the least it seems you are particularly hard on tesla in ways you are not its competitors.
 
I'd like Regen fully-adjustable on the fly. A "trim wheel" would be perfect. I'd settle for flappy-paddles.

Cabin temperature controlled by a simple knob with tactile feedback, not buttons. If I want it 5 degrees cooler, I want to just reach over to where I know the knob is, and rotate it through 5 detents in the desired direction. Even better, let me separately control the max HVAC wattage , and divorce that control from the so-called ECO mode.

A remote-control interface designed by people who don't think 5 MINUTES is a reasonable response-time. Get that down to under 5 seconds. And four 9s availability as a minimum. Stop pretending it's great. Instead, MAKE it great.

Ability to set per-driver preferences for:
-regen
-drive mode
-b mode
-default console display screen
-seat and steering wheel positions

Delete the trees display.

Add a HUD for vehicle speed and battery percent.

Redo the console in a way that suggests someone at Nissan understands human interface design.

Rear headrests that can be seen through, or which pivot out of the rear-view when not in use.

And, would it spoil some vast eternal plan.... if the cabin air filter were easy to get to?
 
edatoakrun said:
As I've already said, I don't think there's much chance of the Gen two having those features I said I would like, so you're wasting effort arguing whether it will.

So it's a waste of time to discuss anything? Why not just shut the forum down then?
 
edatoakrun said:
5) Ability to charge to levels other than 100%.

Possibility of being announced on 9/5: 10%

Possibility of being announced eventually: 10%

Preferably, by allowing end charge levels anywhere from 10% to 90%. (Thanks for the suggestion, WetEV)

Without this feature, I will pass on upgrading my 2016 LEAF. It pains me to not have this feature with Tesla and Bolt offering some version of less-than-full charging. Currently, I only charge when I plan to use the car the next day, but I would like to plug it in nightly like I do with my Bolt and Model S.

I loved the 80% option in my earlier LEAFs. I would plug in nightly and leave it plugged in when not in use.
 
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