SageBrush
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Location: Colorado

Re: Leaf Gen 2 - New Nissan LEAF World Premier on Sep 5, 5:30 PM PDT

Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:33 pm

evnow wrote:
phr00t wrote:Nissan states it will be 150 mile range:

http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/ ... ican-debut

63% of the range of a Bolt.

A Bolt starts @ $37500. Multiply that be 63%, and the Leaf should be starting at $23625 if it wanted to match range per dollar. It doesn't have to match it, because it is in a lower price point... but that isn't "simply amazing" ;)


You should read about why every marginal mile of range has decreasing utility.

Tell that to my 90 mile work commute, my winter driving, or my 260 mile trips to my other home 1-2 times a month.

If 'other home' sounds too marginal, replace it with 'family.'
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles

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Nubo
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Location: Vallejo, CA

Re: Leaf Gen 2 - New Nissan LEAF World Premier on Sep 5, 5:30 PM PDT

Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:49 pm

Lol, can we have the word "meh" excised from the English language? :lol:

Some nice improvements, with further range enhancements in a short pipeline. Nearly double the range of the LEAFs I've had, with more on the way. I won't be in the market until next year so gives me time to ponder.

I'm not a proponent of autonomous driving, so I'm not particularly concerned about the particulars of whatever-they-call-it, but if it can compensate for any "whoopsies" regarding pedestrians playing the fool in parking lots, I'm down with it. As far as parking-assist, I know how to park. Not sure about e-pedal; might be really cool but I'll have to try it.

No compelling reason to go beyond 6.6kW for level 2 charging. And some good reasons not to. IMO, of course :)

A distinct lack of light-colored interiors in the demo; hope some option is available. I hate dark interiors. "Vibrant blue stitching" notwithstanding. (EDIT: looks like light-gray leather available for SL. Too bad you have to go fully loaded to get light-color interior. No light-color cloth option.)

The steering wheel has a flat spot on the bottom? I don't care for that at all. Bad human interface design.

Need some better views of the dash.
Last edited by Nubo on Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Leaf Gen 2 - New Nissan LEAF World Premier on Sep 5, 5:30 PM PDT

Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:58 pm

The car seems to be designed for me, barring something Stupid like bad seats. I'm not bowled over either, but if the leases are affordable, I'm probably in. As for styling, the Bolt looks to me like it was slapped in the face by a truck wearing a class ring, leaving a bow-tie-shaped scar. The Leaf at least looks a bit like a Volvo P1800ES Sportwagon from the nose back. The nose itself is tolerable, if uninspired.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DarthPuppy
Posts: 617
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Re: Leaf Gen 2 - New Nissan LEAF World Premier on Sep 5, 5:30 PM PDT

Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:05 pm

Wow, a lot of negativity based largely on it not meeting the range specs a lot of you wanted on its first step out of the gate. Sounds like more is coming, but that will be a bit delayed.

Looking at the pics and stats I see thus far, it will work quite well for me. Heck we've been very happy with our 2013 Leaf and the styling is much better than Gen1 in my opinion. I had to turn it over to my wife when I changed jobs and the range wasn't adequate for my 63 - 85 mile commute. But the 40kwh battery will work for me, even after allowing for degradation and 80% charging to maximize battery life. After federal, state and county incentives, I'm looking at $24k for the SL. I test drove the Bolt and was very disappointed. And this is going to be quite a bit less than the Tesla M3 which is the only other pure BEV that would work without getting excessive on price.

Pros:
- kept value proposition ($37k fully loaded - much less after incentives)
- increased range by 33%+/-
- improved styling
- added Apple integration
- added key enhanced safety features
- added lighter color leather as an option
- (not confirmed) sounds like they improved the handling - they stated improved stability
- (maybe good) added the one pedal driving concept (won't know until I test it if this is an improvement, but sounds like it is)
- initial after incentive purchase price and TCO will trounce any gas powered car that is anywhere comparable to this car

Cons:
- they didn't increase the battery capacity to xx and range to yy while cutting price in half. qq
- no TMS for the battery - though I've seen lots of posts here indicating that isn't an all encompassing win for smaller battery packs
- the incentives mean an instant $10k - $12k depreciation as soon as you drive it off the lot - but that is true of any BEV.

In conclusion, I'm very interested in making this my 2nd BEV in the family. Won't know for certain until I can actually see and test drive one. But from what I've seen thus far, this looks very promising.
'13 Leaf SL
'18 Honda Clarity Touring PHEV

edatoakrun
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Leaf Number: 2184
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Re: Leaf Gen 2 - New Nissan LEAF World Premier on Sep 5, 5:30 PM PDT

Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:07 pm

Looks different (and to most buyers, probably better) than the Gen one, while using the same platform to reduce development costs.

Looks to me like Nissan has plans to do one thing radically different than it's BEV competitors.

Make a profit...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ubodx5uAxtI
Last edited by edatoakrun on Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
no condition is permanent

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Nubo
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Re: Leaf Gen 2 - New Nissan LEAF World Premier on Sep 5, 5:30 PM PDT

Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:08 pm

phr00t wrote:...I also chuckled a bit when they said no critical battery problems throughout their history... although I guess a class action lawsuit on degradation might not be considered "critical".


I took it to mean no thermal runaway incidents. Nissan has had a splendid record in that regard and deserve to toot their own horn.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

DarthPuppy
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Re: Leaf Gen 2 - New Nissan LEAF World Premier on Sep 5, 5:30 PM PDT

Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:13 pm

I forgot a con:
- they didn't increase the charge rate - it still has the same old 6.6 and the ChaDemo.

But I don't see that as a failure to future proof. Given how long it took for the current infrastructure to deploy and I haven't seen any plans outside of Tesla's SC stations for much better, I doubt there will be any meaningful improvement in high speed charging infrastructure during the life of the car, even if they take another 6 years before they come out with Gen 3. The one potential caveat is if the SAE approach wins and the ChaDeMo infrastructure disappears.

Also forgot a pro:
- better acceleration

But I consider the Gen 1 to perform adequately in that area. More acceleration can be nice when needed though.
'13 Leaf SL
'18 Honda Clarity Touring PHEV

DarthPuppy
Posts: 617
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:45 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Aug 2013

Re: Leaf Gen 2 - New Nissan LEAF World Premier on Sep 5, 5:30 PM PDT

Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:26 pm

I'm starting to come around to liking the autonomous safety enhancements. Do I 'need' it? No. But when I see all the distracted driving these days, especially by the kids who have too little driving experience, I'm getting on board with it. If it actually prevents accidents and injuries, I think it is a good idea.
'13 Leaf SL
'18 Honda Clarity Touring PHEV

edatoakrun
Posts: 5176
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Leaf Gen 2 - New Nissan LEAF World Premier on Sep 5, 5:30 PM PDT

Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:32 pm

Build page:

https://www.nissanusa.com/electric-cars ... configure/

Option only $650 on the SL?

Automatic Emergency Braking with Pedestrian Detection [*]
Intelligent Lane Intervention [*]
ProPILOT™ Assist [*]
Last edited by edatoakrun on Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
no condition is permanent

SageBrush
Posts: 2397
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Leaf Gen 2 - New Nissan LEAF World Premier on Sep 5, 5:30 PM PDT

Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:33 pm

In the same way that a 30 kWh LEAF is functionally no less than a 24 kWh model through the warranty period, this car (presuming Nissan does not play tricks and retains the 65% degradation threshold for battery replacement) will be no less than a 30 kWh battery through the warranty period.

ok .... I guess, for an urban commuter. How many people want to pay $30k for the base version before tax credits ?
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles

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