LeftieBiker
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Re: Leaf Gen 2 - New Nissan LEAF World Premier on Sep 5, 5:30 PM PDT

Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:03 pm

The big failure of the 2018 Leaf, for me and I suspect for others, is that it doesn't simply give you a list of improvements for a lower price. Instead, it gives you tradeoffs, and makes you choose it despite some of its features, instead of because of them. They range from the apparent lack of even a QC-only TMS, to a compromise pack size that doesn't thrill anyone, to the inexcusable lack of any sort of charge limiter, to smaller things like a speedometer that's going to be considerably more difficult to read, especially in daylight, than the Gen 1 speedo. This is exactly why I haven't been shopping for a bargain 2017 Leaf: I don't want another car with terrible high beams, no charge limiter, and what appears to be rapid capacity loss. So why should I rush out and pay triple or more what I'm paying per month now, for a car that would make me miss several of the features of my Gen 1?
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

johnlocke
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Re: Leaf Gen 2 - New Nissan LEAF World Premier on Sep 5, 5:30 PM PDT

Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:38 pm

edatoakrun wrote:Nissan rep's comment on "60 kWh" pack range, for those of you interested:

Bertel Schmitt
@BertelSchmitt

Grinning Schillaci says that bigger battery Leaf "will have more than 225 mile range."

https://twitter.com/BertelSchmitt/statu ... 7337985024

Of course if the "60Kwh" really has ~50% more EPA range than the "40 kWh" pack, it suggests either a very significant increase in energy density, or that the LBC allows a higher percentage of the larger pack's total capacity to be accesed by the driver.

If either of those possibilities occur, and the EPA range is more than 225 miles, it's more likely my earlier $6,000 guess for the cost for the option may turn out to have been too low...

Off-topic reply:

SageBrush wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:So, your point is?

More Nissan's point actually, that battery longevity correlates most strongly with average annual ambient temperature.

I don't recall any Nissan Rep ever saying anything that stupid.

Another case where you just made it up?

Of course, there seem to be a few forum members living in the San Diego area, who have convinced themselves their own LEAF packs lost battery capacity at almost the same rate as a LEAF from Fresno would...

http://www.usclimatedata.com/climate/sa ... s/usca0982

http://www.usclimatedata.com/climate/fr ... s/usca2234


It makes a great deal of difference where in San diego County you live. I'm out in East County at an elevation of 2000ft. Summer days are typically 90+ degrees and 100+ days are frequent. I didn't need to convince myself of anything, I've got 18 months of hard data to back up my claims. I have a 20 month old car with just 77% of it's original capacity. If you still doubt me, come and look for yourself. Be sure and bring your own Leafspy just to confirm my readings.
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edatoakrun
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Re: Leaf Gen 2 - New Nissan LEAF World Premier on Sep 5, 5:30 PM PDT

Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:40 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:...the inexcusable lack of any sort of charge limiter...

I'm irritated by this too.

Having a ~2k ft total/~1.5k ft net descent in the first 7 miles of most trips, the "80%" setting has been must-have.

But with the much larger capacity pack, I expect I would set up with ~15 kWh of charge, and then just set the charge timer for ~9 kWh a night in the Summer, and ~12 kWh a night in Winter, close to what I'll need to make my usual ~50-60 mile trip, a dozen times a month, and unplug the next day after the timed charge is through.

With only ~21 kWh available when new, and especially now with only ~16.7 available, I need to know my pack capacity is about the same before every one of these trips, to avoid anxiety.

With so much margin in my pack on both sides of the daily trip charge, the "80%" setting shouldn't be necessary, my starting kWh will not be crucial, and can fluctuate, so long as I know I have about 20 kWh or more available each day...much more than my 2011 had at "80%" when new!
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Nubo
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Re: Leaf Gen 2 - New Nissan LEAF World Premier on Sep 5, 5:30 PM PDT

Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:09 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:...smaller things like a speedometer that's going to be considerably more difficult to read, especially in daylight, than the Gen 1 speedo....


A test-drive might allay your concerns. One thing about an analog gauge with physical markings is that it doesn't wash-out in direct sunlight. So in some daylight circumstances may be more noticeable than digital, not less.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Leaf Gen 2 - New Nissan LEAF World Premier on Sep 5, 5:30 PM PDT

Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:06 pm

Nubo wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:...smaller things like a speedometer that's going to be considerably more difficult to read, especially in daylight, than the Gen 1 speedo....


A test-drive might allay your concerns. One thing about an analog gauge with physical markings is that it doesn't wash-out in direct sunlight. So in some daylight circumstances may be more noticeable than digital, not less.


Maybe if the numbers were red, but they are white, so they'll wash out in sunlight. As for a test drive, I won't be able to take one before, I'm guessing, mid Winter. By that time I may be driving a Bolt, which I'll be able to test drive as soon as I walk into Chevy dealer that has them in stock. If not, then a test drive won't restore the 80% setting, or give me Pro Park. The latter bit is sadly funny: I didn't even know about it until this week, when Nissan trumpeted it, making me want it badly. Then we find out that the US won't get it. Nissan seems to be competing with GM all right - in the "Why the eff did they do THAT??!" department.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

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Nubo
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Re: Leaf Gen 2 - New Nissan LEAF World Premier on Sep 5, 5:30 PM PDT

Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:45 pm

LeftieBiker wrote: Maybe if the numbers were red, but they are white, so they'll wash out in sunlight. As for a test drive, I won't be able to take one before, I'm guessing, mid Winter. By that time I may be driving a Bolt, which I'll be able to test drive as soon as I walk into Chevy dealer that has them in stock. If not, then a test drive won't restore the 80% setting, or give me Pro Park. The latter bit is sadly funny: I didn't even know about it until this week, when Nissan trumpeted it, making me want it badly. Then we find out that the US won't get it. Nissan seems to be competing with GM all right - in the "Why the eff did they do THAT??!" department.


We'll disagree about the speedo.

I do agree about the lack of charge limiter; there's no technical reason for them to omit it and I don't really buy the EPA excuse. Tesla navigates that issue just fine. I think it's more of a PR move to not cause "battery anxiety". And that's unfortunate and ultimately self-defeating for Nissan because an 80% charge is better for the batteries if you don't need the range. The ability to choose a charging endpoint should be a standard feature on any EV.

I'd like more info on WHY Nissan is not activating the parking feature in US. Seems odd. Is American parking more difficult than Japanese parking? I'd suspect not; we have huge vehicles and the spots are usually sized to accommodate them. Probably some issue with "Lawyers in Love".

That being said, neither the charge limit nor the park deletion are major issues for me. I can get what I want with the timers and I know how to park and how to parallel park. Judging from the demonstrations I've seen, I can certainly park more quickly than the car can. And that's even without a 360-degree camera display, which will make parking childs'-play anyway.

But everyone's needs and wants are different. Bolt may well be the right car for you. The next few years are going to be great because the talk about EV's is going to be less about how they're Golf Carts, or how "Al Gore wants you to freeze to death in the dark", and more about which EVs people prefer. As we approach the steep part of the adoption curve.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Leaf Gen 2 - New Nissan LEAF World Premier on Sep 5, 5:30 PM PDT

Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:37 pm

The Bolt almost certainly isn't the right car for me - that's why I am so pissed off. Nissan had every chance to get this car right for those who find the Bolt too small and crude, and they punted.

I suspect that the Pro Parking omission is, as hinted by Orient Express, a cost-cutting measure to keep costs down on the 2018. They probably left off key, expensive pieces of hardware (radar unit?) to keep the overhead down. If so, and it's standard in a year or two, then anyone buying a 2018 is going to see it depreciate even worse than it would otherwise once Pro Park is available.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

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evnow
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Re: Leaf Gen 2 - New Nissan LEAF World Premier on Sep 5, 5:30 PM PDT

Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:47 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:If so, and it's standard in a year or two, then anyone buying a 2018 is going to see it depreciate even worse than it would otherwise once Pro Park is available.

EVs in general will continue to depreciate a lot - mainly because of the $7.5k tax credit. Unless you are content with the car (or could care little about the depreciation) Leaf 2 should be leased - just like Leaf 1.

One wrinkle is what happens after tax credit is gone. If manufacturers do not reduce MSRP, the used prices could actually go up.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Leaf Gen 2 - New Nissan LEAF World Premier on Sep 5, 5:30 PM PDT

Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:35 pm

Maybe, but look at how popular 2011 Leafs without the seat and wheel heaters have proven to be.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

BrockWI
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Re: Leaf Gen 2 - New Nissan LEAF World Premier on Sep 5, 5:30 PM PDT

Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:51 pm

I might have missed this but does the Nissan have a "hilltop" mode for charging? At least the Bolt has that correct?
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