DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12332
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2018 LEAF Drive Review

Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:23 pm

Well its easy to see why we don't see over 6 kw public charging and that is because ignoring less than 10,000 Bolts on the road (Tesla's DO see faster L2) look at the size of the battery packs. This will change dramatically in the next year. The thought that L2 providers will remain static is simply not likely. Central WA has fast L2's so its not like something has to be designed.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 27,000 miles.363GID Ahr 79.13Hx95.17%kwh28.1QCs238,L2's 251
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1690
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: 2018 LEAF Drive Review

Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:46 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:Central WA has fast L2's so its not like something has to be designed.


Heck, there are a couple of 70-80A L2s in Syracuse, NY (the J1772 spec goes up to 80A/240V = 19.2kW). Not exactly a stronghold of EVs. So yes, it's possible. And it's cheaper than DC. But I wonder if we will really see more 80A EVSEs. I would much rather see 100kW DCQCs become the norm, with free 32A L2s dotted around at companies looking to attract business.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
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DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12332
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2018 LEAF Drive Review

Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:42 am

The reality is its become the loose standard that an L2 recharge takes roughly 8 hours or "overnight" with a 60 kwh pack, we are looking at 10+ hours which is beyond the parameters.

So maybe 9.6 is too much but my statement that I would be surprised to see 6.6 stands. I just don't see it happening. Like any highly competitive area, when predicting future specs, we can get a real good hint of what we might expect by looking to other manufacturers.

The guesses are not rocket science. 7.7 for a 40 amp feed or 9.6 for a 50 amp feed. I will bet on one of those two any day over leaving it at 6.6
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 27,000 miles.363GID Ahr 79.13Hx95.17%kwh28.1QCs238,L2's 251
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

edatoakrun
Posts: 4756
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: 2018 LEAF Drive Review

Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:26 pm

I test drove the '18 yesterday, unfortunately in rainy and high traffic conditions.

Reinforced my earlier impressions that it is a very well though-out major refresh of the 2011-2017 gen one LEAF.

IMO, the biggest improvement is in ride/handling, as it both felt lighter and definitely had less body roll than my 2011.

More driver leg room solved the only ergonomic issue I've ever had in my 2011.

Only real disappointments were:

As usual, Nisan screwed up the presentation.

Driver was late, and no one answered the phone at the test drive HQ.

I was in Contra Costa, ~250 miles from home, wanted to beat the PM 680/80 east rush hour traffic, and was only a few minutes from reaching maximum level of aggravation and driving home, when the driver finally showed.

As to LEAF's (slight) flaws...

ProPilot had problems with the weather, making me take the wheel whenever drizzle increased to light rain.

It also apparently mistook reflections from wet longitudinal tar strips for road markings once or twice, giving erroneous lane departure warnings.

No GPS data altimeter? This is a must-have for mountain driving as far as I am concerned, so I'll need to get that data elsewhere.

Comments of note by the Nissan employee conducting the test drives.

0.6" less road clearance than 2011-17, a net positive, except those few like myself that take their LEAFs off-pavement frequently.

He seemed skeptical of my local Nissan dealer's estimate that the earliest date my 2018 order might get to the dealer, of late December, and suggested something closer to the latest possible date I was told (early February) was much more likely.

He also said that he was informed the available capacity of the "40 kWh" pack was ~36.3 kWh, which would be good news, if it turns out to be correct.

That could suggest an EPA range rating in the mid 150's.

Not really a controlled range test, But this guy's "150 ... 170 mile range in America..." conclusion at ~1:05 is probably a pretty fair estimate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qzbp2uhQQfk
no condition is permanent

Durandal
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:55 am
Delivery Date: 22 Sep 2016
Leaf Number: 025018
Location: Central Arkansas

Re: 2018 LEAF Drive Review

Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:51 am

In my opinion 9.6kW charging is necessary. I specifically ran a 50amp connection to my carport so I can run at 40amps (derated amperage) for the circuit to allow me to charge my next vehicle at 40 amps. Every single week I deal with this issue:
On Mondays I must return home to get my daughter and then go take her to dance class. That means for those days I must put 90 miles on my car. My Leaf cannot do it. My Leaf COULD do it if I had a 9.6kW charger, allowing me to fill it up enough to get to/from her dance studio. I could ALMOST do it if my 2012 Leaf had a 6.6kW charger, but it does not. There are other use cases as well for work or otherwise where 9.6kW even over 6.6kW would make a difference. My Model 3 will be able to do 40 amp charging, and that's what I will do. I'm just hoping my long range car, a 2014 Nissan Versa, doesn't have the transmission crap out for a second time before we get our Model 3 in mid-2018.
Anyhow, yeah, love my Leaf, and hate it all at the same time due to range and charging times.
Pulled the trigger on going EV on 10/2016 with a 2012 Leaf, and a Tesla Model 3 reservation expected to receive in June 2018.

BrockWI
Posts: 574
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:28 am
Delivery Date: 28 Mar 2014
Leaf Number: 423875
Location: Green Bay, WI.
Contact: Website

Re: 2018 LEAF Drive Review

Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:02 am

I think the same thing with our 13 Leaf, there are times I could use it if I could charge at a faster rate, but at the same time if I started with 30kWh or better yet 40kWh I wouldn't be in that pinch in the first place.
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Nubo
Posts: 4509
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 11:01 am
Delivery Date: 31 Oct 2014
Location: Vallejo, CA

Re: 2018 LEAF Drive Review

Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:56 am

Durandal wrote:In my opinion 9.6kW charging is necessary. I specifically ran a 50amp connection to my carport so I can run at 40amps (derated amperage) for the circuit to allow me to charge my next vehicle at 40 amps. Every single week I deal with this issue:
On Mondays I must return home to get my daughter and then go take her to dance class. That means for those days I must put 90 miles on my car. My Leaf cannot do it. My Leaf COULD do it if I had a 9.6kW charger, allowing me to fill it up enough to get to/from her dance studio....


In the context of the thread though (2018 LEAF), the higher speed charging wouldn't be a necessity as it could take a 90-mile day in stride with no problem.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12332
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2018 LEAF Drive Review

Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:04 am

Its a foregone conclusion that 9.6 KW charging is likely to be the norm in less than 2 years probably but in reality, this is simply another reason where no amount of range will lessen the need for fast chargers in public.

Most of these comments we see are mostly because up till now, our experience has been with EVs that cover our "basic" needs. So emergencies or simply free will are not as well covered. In some cases, a decent level 2 at home is enough. I can get 40 miles of range in 90 mins. Combined with what I already had, that is enough for most of my evenings out which is normally just dinner something that adds maybe 25 miles if detouring to pick people up (which seems to be the norm).

But if I don't have 90 mins, extra time at a QC is my preferred option anyway.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 27,000 miles.363GID Ahr 79.13Hx95.17%kwh28.1QCs238,L2's 251
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johnlocke
Posts: 178
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2018 LEAF Drive Review

Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:00 am

J1772 spec allows for 80 amp charging at 240 VAC which would be great for a fast home charger. Of course you'll need a 100 amp dedicated circuit. The fly in the ointment is battery heating at high charge rates. At 100 amps DC fast charging warms up a 30 KWH battery by 10-15 degrees in 30 minutes. Imagine a 60-75 KWH battery charging for a couple of hours. You are going to need a active cooling system or you are going to fry the battery. I can also imagine the cries from the local utility as you draw 20 KW off the grid for 2-3 hours. You would have beef up the AC-DC converter to handle the higher current as well. The major advantage for me would be to able to add 60-80 miles of range in an hour.

The truth of the matter is that 80 amp 240 VAC charging would be a lot cheaper to install than DCFC stations that require 480 VAC 3 phase commercial power. I suspect that someone could build an DCFC that would run on 240 AC at 75-80 amps and plug into the Chademo connector on a Leaf without too much difficulty. Wouldn't charge as fast but not a lot slower either. The ability to get a 60 KWH battery charged in 3-4 hours instead of 9-10 hours could be significant to a lot of people. Overnight charging sounds simple enough but it isn't always enough. Until DCFC stations are as common as gas stations currently are I'd like to have the ability to put a quick charge on the battery at home. A larger battery helps but isn't the whole answer.
Last edited by johnlocke on Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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cwerdna
Gold Member
Posts: 7261
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2018 LEAF Drive Review

Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:25 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:Its a foregone conclusion that 9.6 KW charging is likely to be the norm in less than 2 years

Why do you say that?

Other than Teslas-powered EVs, I've seen no other mainstream EVs or PHEVs ship with above 7.2 kW OBC in the US. Many PHEVs still ship with lame 3.x kW OBCs w/no option to go higher (e.g. gen 2 Volt, I believe all Ford PHEVs, Prius Prime, most/all BMW PHEVs except the i3 REx, etc.)

I've personally never seen any public J1772 charging that is capable of over 30 or 32 amps.

Are you saying we're suddenly going to see many more vehicles w/9.6+ kW OBCs and many 40 amp public L2 EVSEs within 2 years?
Last edited by cwerdna on Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:39 am, edited 4 times in total.

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