Kieran973
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:51 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2019
Location: near NY, NY

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:51 pm

Can anyone on MNL speak to the driveability of the Leaf (any model year, really) after its battery has degraded below 66% capacity? I've heard conflicting things about this. Some people on other forums have claimed that once an EV's battery reaches its "end of life" (say, 70%), the problem isn't just depleted range but a compromised drivetrain - the car itself will have less power, will have much slower acceleration, can turn off without warning, etc. But for those of you who have kept your Leafs beyond 8 capacity bars, is this actually true? Is it just FUD?

I'm asking because I'm thinking about the 2019 Leaf Plus and trying to imagine what years 10-15 of ownership might look like. Could you still drive this car with a battery that has 40-50% SOH? Let's say the battery in the 62 kWh Leaf will have an average annual degradation of 4% a year. This means that it would hit 66% in 8.5 years (just enough time for Nissan to tell Leaf owners, "good luck with your battery problem!"). On the one hand, this would objectively suck. But on the other hand, you'd still have basically the same range as a 2018 Leaf (149.16 miles EPA). After 10 years, you'd still have more range than a 2017 Leaf (60% SOH, 135.6 miles EPA), and after 15 years, you'd still have more range than a 2015 Leaf (40% SOH, 90.4 miles EPA). So, depending on whether you could pick up a 2019 Leaf Plus at a relative bargain towards the end of 2019 (assuming that dealer discounts, tax incentives, and utility rebates push the out-of-pocket cost for the S Plus down to say the low to mid 20K area), then, from a TCO perspective, a 2019 Leaf Plus that can serve as a long-range-capable car for 5-7 years, and then as a comfortable commuter car for 7-10 years after that, starts to make at least hypothetical sense. But can you drive it safely and reliably when the SOH drops below 66%? Will it merge onto highways OK? Will it suddenly lose power when you're cruising on the highway?
2019 Leaf SV (silver) with All-Weather Package

LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:57 pm

There is a point at which driveability issues emerge, but I think that it's more like 33% or less remaining capacity than 66%. There are 6 bar losers out there, and AFAIK what mostly suffers at that point is the regenerative braking.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13778
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Leaf Number: 314199
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Contact: Website

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:29 pm

Kieran973 wrote:Can anyone on MNL speak to the driveability of the Leaf (any model year, really) after its battery has degraded below 66% capacity? I've heard conflicting things about this. Some people on other forums have claimed that once an EV's battery reaches its "end of life" (say, 70%), the problem isn't just depleted range but a compromised drivetrain - the car itself will have less power, will have much slower acceleration, can turn off without warning, etc. But for those of you who have kept your Leafs beyond 8 capacity bars, is this actually true? Is it just FUD?

I'm asking because I'm thinking about the 2019 Leaf Plus and trying to imagine what years 10-15 of ownership might look like. Could you still drive this car with a battery that has 40-50% SOH? Let's say the battery in the 62 kWh Leaf will have an average annual degradation of 4% a year. This means that it would hit 66% in 8.5 years (just enough time for Nissan to tell Leaf owners, "good luck with your battery problem!"). On the one hand, this would objectively suck. But on the other hand, you'd still have basically the same range as a 2018 Leaf (149.16 miles EPA). After 10 years, you'd still have more range than a 2017 Leaf (60% SOH, 135.6 miles EPA), and after 15 years, you'd still have more range than a 2015 Leaf (40% SOH, 90.4 miles EPA). So, depending on whether you could pick up a 2019 Leaf Plus at a relative bargain towards the end of 2019 (assuming that dealer discounts, tax incentives, and utility rebates push the out-of-pocket cost for the S Plus down to say the low to mid 20K area), then, from a TCO perspective, a 2019 Leaf Plus that can serve as a long-range-capable car for 5-7 years, and then as a comfortable commuter car for 7-10 years after that, starts to make at least hypothetical sense. But can you drive it safely and reliably when the SOH drops below 66%? Will it merge onto highways OK? Will it suddenly lose power when you're cruising on the highway?


WOW!! Where did you hear all this?

afaik, the only change is slower fast charging and reduced regenerative braking. The rest you mentioned? I haven't heard anything about.

Do realize the longer you drive "any" car, the greater the possibility of random weird issues. Its all about the law of averages but by and large; the LEAF has proven to be quite hassle free (as long as you don't have far to go...)
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
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Kieran973
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:51 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2019
Location: near NY, NY

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:57 pm

Do realize the longer you drive "any" car, the greater the possibility of random weird issues.


Indeed. My last car was a 2001 Honda Civic that, after only 150,000 miles, developed a bad alternator, and the whole car suddenly turned off when I was in the left lane on an interstate. So I agree that ICE cars definitely have weird issues towards the end of their lives. I'm just trying to confirm that once an EV battery reaches end of life and the SOH drops below 70ish%, you don't necessarily have to get a new battery or get rid of the car, as long as you can live with the reduced range....
2019 Leaf SV (silver) with All-Weather Package

Kieran973
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:51 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2019
Location: near NY, NY

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:00 pm

There is a point at which driveability issues emerge, but I think that it's more like 33% or less remaining capacity than 66%. There are 6 bar losers out there, and AFAIK what mostly suffers at that point is the regenerative braking.


Interesting. I was hoping someone would say something like this. Thanks. (Though I'm still leaning towards the Niro EV....)
2019 Leaf SV (silver) with All-Weather Package

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13778
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
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Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:21 pm

Kieran973 wrote:
Do realize the longer you drive "any" car, the greater the possibility of random weird issues.


Indeed. My last car was a 2001 Honda Civic that, after only 150,000 miles, developed a bad alternator, and the whole car suddenly turned off when I was in the left lane on an interstate. So I agree that ICE cars definitely have weird issues towards the end of their lives. I'm just trying to confirm that once an EV battery reaches end of life and the SOH drops below 70ish%, you don't necessarily have to get a new battery or get rid of the car, as long as you can live with the reduced range....


Oh no. We had a 7 bar loser here in Seattle. He only lost regen, nothing else. He ended up getting another pack. I think he was at 150-160,000 miles?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JeffN
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 4:31 pm
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Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:31 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
jlv wrote:
golfcart wrote:* Faster QC

Will there be updated CHAdeMO in the US that will supply that faster rate? I suspect given it's success in Japan, it might happen there.


EVGO has said they will implement as it becomes available which likely means as stations break such. EA has only said they would upgrade CCS without mentioning chademo so....?

EVgo is nearly finished upgrading their first site from 50 kW to 100 kW CCS and CHAdeMO.

https://electricrevs.com/2018/12/17/evg ... -san-jose/

EA has said all of their 50 kW CHAdeMO cables will be software upgradable to 100 kW at some point but they haven’t made the decision to do that yet.

golfcart
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Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:08 am
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Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:32 am

Nissan USA has a place to sign up for updates if anyone hasn't seen it here's the link. I usually don't like spam but I'll make an exception here. :)

https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/electric-cars/2019-leaf-plus.html

I'm intrigued enough to keep an eye on this car. I've loved my 2015 aside from the looks and range issues which I knew about coming in. The thought of having ~100 extra horsepower and ~60 extra lb-ft of torque with a better looking exterior and 3x the range is definitely exciting.

If the S plus comes with phone integration and QC standard (the above link implies that they will both be standard) it'd be a hell of a deal from my perspective given the full Federal credit and (rumored) MSRP around $36k. It'll be on the high end of what I'm comfortable with price wise but doable. If nothing else the eplus should help lower the price of the regular leaf existing stock.
2015 S with Charge Package

cwerdna
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Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:07 am


'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

jdcbomb
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 12:17 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2015

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:48 am

Wish they would have upgraded the L2 charging port to 7.2 (or 9) at least...must have required reconfiguration of other charging components...
2018 Leaf SV - In Service 2019 January - Location: Raleigh, NC.
2013 Leaf SL - Original In Service 2013 February - Bar Losses: 2016.10.17 - 25,843 Miles -- 2017.06.23 - 32,080 Miles -- 2018.04.10 - 37,000 Miles -- 4th: 2018.09.23 - 44,255 Miles

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