LeftieBiker
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Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:25 pm

smkettner wrote:No way would I drive or recommend a Nissan until the battery consistently holds 85%+ capacity at 100K miles.


That's not very reasonable because it comes close to violating what is now known about the physics of lithium batteries. 70 or 75+% at 100k miles would be reasonable.
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GetOffYourGas
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Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:35 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
smkettner wrote:No way would I drive or recommend a Nissan until the battery consistently holds 85%+ capacity at 100K miles.


That's not very reasonable because it comes close to violating what is now known about the physics of lithium batteries. 70 or 75+% at 100k miles would be reasonable.


85% capacity after <450 cycles (assuming 225 miles/charge) doesn't seem unreasonable to me. Although calendar life factors in as well. There is a big difference between these high-mileage drivers who go 100k miles in 2 years versus a more typical driver who might take 8-10 years.
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WetEV
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Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:51 am

smkettner wrote:
WetEV wrote:
smkettner wrote:No way would I drive or recommend a Nissan until the battery consistently holds 85%+ capacity at 100K miles.
Even if the Nissan EV was the cheapest EV to operate per mile?
How much does a battery cost every 50,000 miles? Less?


Cost of the battery depends on a lot of items. Cost of ownership on even more. And why the change from 100k to 50k or less?

Why 85%? Economics gives a different answer than 85%. Why not replace the battery at the lowest cost percentage X%?

If you need Y kWh, put in Y/X% kWh.
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goldbrick
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Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:41 am

My 2017 Leaf battery is currently at about 400% of my daily needs. Once it drops below 100% I'll consider replacing it but that will be a while.....

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Stanton
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Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:18 pm

goldbrick wrote:My 2017 Leaf battery is currently at about 400% of my daily needs. Once it drops below 100% I'll consider replacing it but that will be a while.....


Funny: if more people looked at EVs that way, we wouldn't even be having this discussion!
More than 75% of work commutes continue to be <40 miles round trip. Now that doesn't mean I wouldn't like a little extra cushion of 30 or 40 (on the highway, in the cold, with the heater on) miles, but I certainly don't need 200 or 300 miles.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:47 pm

If you define "needs" as the length of your commute plus a modest cushion, then you are setting both yourself and other drivers up for disappointment and frustration. Unless the car is acquired for use just as a commuter vehicle, then it needs to be able to do at least almost all of the trips taken in a typical year. For me and many others, this is about 100 miles in Summer, 75 in Winter. Having just seen my SOH drop about 1% in one month, I'm not feeling supportive of Nissan and their vanishing capacity batteries.
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goldbrick
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Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:51 pm

I'm just basing my estimate on the fact that I charge about twice a week on average. If I wanted to charge every night in the garage (easy, peasy for me and many EV owners) then I could go about 4x what I do now. All of this is on average of course.

That said, my current range is just about 100% of what it would take to do a round-trip to the local airport. I could add some charge near the airport (for free currently) but so far I haven't even tried a trip to the airport in my Leaf. In the winter or after the battery degrades it will be a non-starter without a charge somewhere along the way. But I drive to the airport maybe 2 or 3 times a year. I can easily take an ICE car or ride the bus for those few trips.

My point being is that I don't want to spend $$$$$ on an EV that will do (almost) everything an ICE car can do but for $$ I have an EV that does a lot.

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:19 am

EVDRIVER wrote:
kmartyn wrote:Canadian dealers are now sending out email notices that Leaf 2018 model is sold out, and that the 2019 model year will be $800-900 more.
I cannot see how they would be able to get 60KWH with TMS, faster charging and a bigger motor in there for that price.


They can't and they won't. Didn't you hear, the 2019 Canada models are all the 2018 US models they could not sell, the $900 is the additional freight to ship them.


That would be a bit outrageous. Nissan gonna go thru and change all the VINs first?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
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DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13212
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Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:27 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
smkettner wrote:No way would I drive or recommend a Nissan until the battery consistently holds 85%+ capacity at 100K miles.


That's not very reasonable because it comes close to violating what is now known about the physics of lithium batteries. 70 or 75+% at 100k miles would be reasonable.


Without stating pack size, you cannot make such a statement. a 200 Kwh pack would easily exceed those parameters in a mere 100,000 miles.

With a pack size of 60 kwh, now it becomes a difference between BMS (of which we know nothing) and Chemistry (of which we know nothing)

An ultraconservative BMS like the 40 kwh pack with better chemistry (will likely increase costs) combined with TMS and the pack should easily beat that 85% number.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
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johnlocke
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Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:08 am

The simple answer is that the battery should last the life of the car. If you call 200K/15 years EOL and expect 60% of battery capacity at that point, then 80% at 100K/8 years seems pretty reasonable. When Nissan exec's talked about the car they said that they expected the battery would retain 80% of capacity after 100K. If you were going to buy an ICE and the dealer said to you that you'ld have to replace the engine after 60K, I expect that you'ld laugh in his face and walk out. Why should I expect less of an EV then a conventional car?
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