Nissan finally gets it with new 240V portable EVSE

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scottf200

Well-known member
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In my Volt VIN 01234 <actual>
Via TMC Cosmacelf: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/2512109/

It is a NEMA 14-50 even tho the shadow makes it look like a 14-30.

The EVSE has a NEMA 14-50 plug, and then an adapter that plugs into the 14-50 that converts it to a regular NEMA 5-15 120V household plug. So, when fed 120V, the EVSE charges at 12A, and when fed at 240V, it charges at 30A (or at least that's what the ratings on the label are).

2018-leaf-evse-jpg.273380

qLe5YkQ.jpg

qkemgqW.jpg
 
Yes. We've known about this for awhile. Been discussed in at least a few threads like http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=24534.

I have physically seen at least twice.
 
Just curious how the "plug" selection is decided by the vendor (ie. Nissan) when they manufacture this charger. Why is the NEMA 14-50P plug chosen?

In my garage, we have the NEMA 6-50R shaped wall outlet/recepticle which was previously installed by the Blink contractor. Our 240V Blink wall units use the NEMA 6-50P plug type. I have always felt this plug/recepticle style was a bad choice - I don't see this configuration as common...
 
cwerdna said:
Yes. We've known about this for awhile. Been discussed in at least a few threads like http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=24534.
I have physically seen at least twice.
Geez, sorry. I looked around for a few minutes but couldn't find any thing on it. Thought the pictures were useful.
 
mxp said:
Just curious how the "plug" selection is decided by the vendor (ie. Nissan) when they manufacture this charger. Why is the NEMA 14-50P plug chosen?

Iirc, 14-50 is commonly used in RV campgrounds, which would make the Nissan unit useful as a take-along unit when traveling although a wider range of adapters wouldn't be a bad idea.
 
The problem with this arrangement with the adapter is that it will put a rather large moment on the outlet when plugged into a 120VAC outlet. As a result, it will not be possible to plug this in to a normal outlet without the use of an extension cord or something to set the unit on very near the outlet.

Without the adapter, it looks great, assuming the 14-50S outlet is oriented the proper way.

One question: When plugged into 240VAC, does this new EVSE use the neutral pin? Obviously the old one didn't given it had no neutral pin.
 
RegGuheert said:
One question: When plugged into 240VAC, does this new EVSE use the neutral pin? Obviously the old one didn't given it had no neutral pin.
Interesting question as that would only be done if they were pulling "120v" power from it for some reason (isn't that what a dryer does an example? motor 120v & heating element 240v - my memory may have failed me)

Since a NEMA 14-50 is a standard plug (not related to EV chargign) the neutral obviously should always connected/functional on any receptacle that is used anyway.
 
RegGuheert said:
The problem with this arrangement with the adapter is that it will put a rather large moment on the outlet when plugged into a 120VAC outlet. As a result, it will not be possible to plug this in to a normal outlet without the use of an extension cord or something to set the unit on very near the outlet....

Agreed; though this is an easy problem to solve. With the much-heavier early unit with straight-in plug I simply suspended the box with a string and hook. The more worrisome issue though is some people don't realize the problem and will simply plug in and let it hang.
 
NeilBlanchard said:
What is the kW rating on this unit at 240V?
I don't think I've seen or read that anywhere. I read that the LEAF 2 has an onboard 6.6kW charger.

So you think the new LEAF EVSE is something less than this max: 9.6 kW (kilowatts) = 240 V (volts) × 40 A (amperes)

Someone will certainly put it on a Tesla or other car capable of pulling more than 6.6kW and see the result.

Does the LEAF EVSE or car interface allow you to select lower amperage settings like the Tesla's (adj down to 5a) or Volt (8 or 12)?
If so then responsible and careful owners could use clothes dryer NEMA 14-30 or 10-30 receptacles to pull 24 or lower amps.
 
scottf200 said:
NeilBlanchard said:
What is the kW rating on this unit at 240V?
I don't think I've seen or read that anywhere. I read that the LEAF 2 has an onboard 6.6kW charger.

So you think the new LEAF EVSE is something less than this max: 9.6 kW (kilowatts) = 240 V (volts) × 40 A (amperes)

Someone will certainly put it on a Tesla or other car capable of pulling more than 6.6kW and see the result.

Does the LEAF EVSE or car interface allow you to select lower amperage settings like the Tesla's (adj down to 5a) or Volt (8 or 12)?
If so then responsible and careful owners could use clothes dryer NEMA 14-30 or 10-30 receptacles to pull 24 or lower amps.
Read the first post in this thread, the label says 30 Amps at 240 V. I'll presume that is the wiring spec, so throughput would be up to 240*24 watts.
 
SageBrush said:
scottf200 said:
NeilBlanchard said:
What is the kW rating on this unit at 240V?
I don't think I've seen or read that anywhere. I read that the LEAF 2 has an onboard 6.6kW charger.

So you think the new LEAF EVSE is something less than this max: 9.6 kW (kilowatts) = 240 V (volts) × 40 A (amperes)

Someone will certainly put it on a Tesla or other car capable of pulling more than 6.6kW and see the result.

Does the LEAF EVSE or car interface allow you to select lower amperage settings like the Tesla's (adj down to 5a) or Volt (8 or 12)?
If so then responsible and careful owners could use clothes dryer NEMA 14-30 or 10-30 receptacles to pull 24 or lower amps.
Read the first post in this thread, the label says 30 Amps at 240 V. I'll presume that is the wiring spec, so throughput would be up to 240*24 watts.
Which IMO is stupid! Why use a 50a plug on a vehicle that can draw up to 27.5a and then limit to 24a with the EVSE :?
Also more than likely the j1772 cord will be able to handle 30a continuous, at least 10 gauge wiring can in a cord situation and many EVSEs use metric gauges which can handle a bit more than SAE. I believe 6.6mm??(whats on 2 of my higher powered EVSEs) can handle 32a continuous. Limiting the new Leaf EVSE to 24a makes no sense :?
 
SageBrush said:
Read the first post in this thread, the label says 30 Amps at 240 V.
I have a picture of the back of the brick. For input and output at 240 volts, it says 30 amps. I'm going to assume this is the max output and the pilot signal it emits corresponds to that.
 
scottf200 said:
Does the LEAF EVSE or car interface allow you to select lower amperage settings like the Tesla's (adj down to 5a) or Volt (8 or 12)?
Current Leafs do not. I don't know about the '18.

Nobody should need to screw with this anyway. Not many vehicles let you turn down the 208/240 volt charging rate. Teslas and the BMW i3 are the only two I'm aware of. It just adds to confusion (besides being a potential source of error and range anxiety if the driver forgot and left the charging rate turned down) and honestly, doesn't belong in a car's UI.
 
cwerdna said:
scottf200 said:
Does the LEAF EVSE or car interface allow you to select lower amperage settings like the Tesla's (adj down to 5a) or Volt (8 or 12)?
Current Leafs do not. I don't know about the '18.

Nobody should need to screw with this anyway. Not many vehicles let you turn down the 208/240 volt charging rate. Teslas and the BMW i3 are the only two I'm aware of. It just adds to confusion (besides being a potential source of error and range anxiety if the driver forgot and left the charging rate turned down) and honestly, doesn't belong in a car's UI.
Re: 120v -- Similar situation on 120v at least with the Volt. You can change the supplied charger EVSE to 8 or 12 amps ... and you can do that within the Volt as well. Some receptacles in old homes or not wired well (pushed wire vs screw) have shown over heating "signs" on 12 amps.

Re: 120v/240v -- Hardware-wise if you use the Tesla_Model_S/X/3 Gen 2 NEMA Adapters then they have circuitry in them that talk to the S/X/3 to tell it to automatically set the amps. That way users can't try to draw too many amps.

Note old Gen 1 adapters had that too but they were a short adapter vs these corded ones. For example using this adapter on Gen 1 instead of the 14-50 would force the amps down. https://shop.tesla.com/us/en/product/vehicle-accessories/model-s_x-nema-adapters.html?sku=1014355-10-B

Below via: https://shop.tesla.com/us/en/product/vehicle-accessories/model-3-nema-adapters.html?sku=1099345-00-C
NEMA_ALL.png

NEMA_Gen2.png
 
cwerdna said:
scottf200 said:
Does the LEAF EVSE or car interface allow you to select lower amperage settings like the Tesla's (adj down to 5a) or Volt (8 or 12)?
Current Leafs do not. I don't know about the '18.

Nobody should need to screw with this anyway. Not many vehicles let you turn down the 208/240 volt charging rate. Teslas and the BMW i3 are the only two I'm aware of. It just adds to confusion (besides being a potential source of error and range anxiety if the driver forgot and left the charging rate turned down) and honestly, doesn't belong in a car's UI.
Aren't there 20 Amp (continuous rating) circuits in the wild ? Certainly 24 Amp continuous are common.
 
I am wondering...

1. Does anyone know the Amp ratings for the supplied EVSE; for the 2011 model Leaf in the Australia/UK markets? These are 240V countries.

2. Comparing with the old 2011 model, will Leaf owners in Australia/UK likely get the higher Amp rated EVSE with their 2018 vehicles?

cwerdna said:
SageBrush said:
Read the first post in this thread, the label says 30 Amps at 240 V.
I have a picture of the back of the brick. For input and output at 240 volts, it says 30 amps. I'm going to assume this is the max output and the pilot signal it emits corresponds to that.
 
scottf200 said:
cwerdna said:
scottf200 said:
Does the LEAF EVSE or car interface allow you to select lower amperage settings like the Tesla's (adj down to 5a) or Volt (8 or 12)?
Current Leafs do not. I don't know about the '18.

Nobody should need to screw with this anyway. Not many vehicles let you turn down the 208/240 volt charging rate. Teslas and the BMW i3 are the only two I'm aware of. It just adds to confusion (besides being a potential source of error and range anxiety if the driver forgot and left the charging rate turned down) and honestly, doesn't belong in a car's UI.
Re: 120v -- Similar situation on 120v at least with the Volt. You can change the supplied charger EVSE to 8 or 12 amps ... and you can do that within the Volt as well. Some receptacles in old homes or not wired well (pushed wire vs screw) have shown over heating "signs" on 12 amps.

Re: 120v/240v -- Hardware-wise if you use the Tesla_Model_S/X/3 Gen 2 NEMA Adapters then they have circuitry in them that talk to the S/X/3 to tell it to automatically set the amps. That way users can't try to draw too many amps.
...
This is why I was trying to limit what I said to 208/240 volt charge rate and to also limit it to the vehicle's UI. I'm aware of the 120 volt 8 amp/12 amp thing on GM vehicles where IIRC, it was originally on the EVSE then got moved to a menu item in the car's UI.

As for Tesla, I'm aware of what you're talking about, where the mobile connector, depending on the adapter attached will limit the amount drawn (presumably via the J1772 pilot signal, to which the car's OBC must comply). However, this isn't part of the car's UI. And, it assumes that if for example, a 14-30 adapter is attached, that the circuit itself is a 30 amp circuit, able to sustain a 24 amp continuous load. The driver doesn't need to screw with any UI. They select the adapter that fits and the car will not draw more than what's safe for a continuous load on that circuit.

AFAIK, unfortunately, it doesn't look like the 120/240 volt EVSE available with the US '18 Leaf has the flexibility the Tesla mobile connector has. It appears to be either NEMA 5-15 or 14-50 only.

And, as I mentioned, the i3 and Teslas having some UI within the car to adjust charging rate is unusual and can create confusion and added sources of error. From what I recall on the i3 Facebook group, it leads people to even want to do unsafe stuff like installing an EVSE w/unsafe amperage for the circuit then turning down the rate via i3's UI, which one may forget.
 
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