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RegGuheert
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Re: Nissan finally gets it with new 240V portable EVSE

Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:39 am

SageBrush wrote:Aren't there 20 Amp (continuous rating) circuits in the wild ? Certainly 24 Amp continuous are common.
That's what I have my EVSEUpgrade plugged into. It is one of the second-generation of upgrades that drew 16A from 240VAC (the first ones drew 12A). It has a 20A twist-lock connector on it, so that is what I installed in my garage. I used a 20A breaker for that branch circuit, but I ran 10 AWG wires to allow for a possible change to a 30A connector. That allows me to move up to an EVSE which draws 24A in the future, but that's it. That's about 5.5 kW into the battery, so it should suffice for most home charging.

Unfortunately, this new Nissan EVSE goes beyond the capability of my exisiting wiring. I would likely be in the market for one of the 24A EVSEUpgrades from the MY2013 and later LEAF 1s which go up to 24A and use a 30A twist-lock connector.
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webeleafowners
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Re: Nissan finally gets it with new 240V portable EVSE

Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:35 am

One of the advantages of the 14-50 plug is that many homes have a stove plug . Even if it doesn't reach, an RV 50 amp extension cord can solve the problem. I would rather adapt down than up.
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EVDRIVER
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Re: Nissan finally gets it with new 240V portable EVSE

Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:55 am

webeleafowners wrote:One of the advantages of the 14-50 plug is that many homes have a stove plug . Even if it doesn't reach, an RV 50 amp extension cord can solve the problem. I would rather adapt down than up.



A sotve is a 10-50 not a 14-50. A 14-50 is an RV plug .

wwhitney
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Re: Nissan finally gets it with new 240V portable EVSE

Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:40 am

EVDRIVER wrote:A stove is a 10-50 not a 14-50.

Only on older installations. The 10-50 is an ungrounded 120/240V receptacle with 2 hots and a neutral. The neutral may used to ground the stove by special allowance in the NEC for existing installations meeting certain conditions. Any new stove receptacle installed in the past twenty years (or more?) should be a 14-50. And if you are replacing a stove that was using a 10-50, then if a ground wire is available in the stove receptacle box, the receptacle should be changed to a 14-50 at that time.

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Re: Nissan finally gets it with new 240V portable EVSE

Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:58 pm

cwerdna wrote:
scottf200 wrote:Re: 120v/240v -- Hardware-wise if you use the Tesla_Model_S/X/3 Gen 2 NEMA Adapters then they have circuitry in them that talk to the S/X/3 to tell it to automatically set the amps. That way users can't try to draw too many amps.
As for Tesla, I'm aware of what you're talking about, where the mobile connector, depending on the adapter attached will limit the amount drawn (presumably via the J1772 pilot signal, to which the car's OBC must comply). However, this isn't part of the car's UI. And, it assumes that if for example, a 14-30 adapter is attached, that the circuit itself is a 30 amp circuit, able to sustain a 24 amp continuous load. The driver doesn't need to screw with any UI. They select the adapter that fits and the car will not draw more than what's safe for a continuous load on that circuit.
In regards to the underlined, the Tesla UI still gives you the flexibility to lower the amps in the UI. Many of us do that to limit the total amps drawn for something like a garage subpanel. As an example, I lower my Tesla 14-50 plugged charging within the UI from 40a to 32a so that if the two Volts are charging we don't draw too much (subpanel). We do all 3 do schedule charging but you have to make sure you handle worse case scenarios (Volts doing charge 'immediates' instead of schedule).
Image
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webeleafowners
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Re: Nissan finally gets it with new 240V portable EVSE

Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:50 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:
webeleafowners wrote:One of the advantages of the 14-50 plug is that many homes have a stove plug . Even if it doesn't reach, an RV 50 amp extension cord can solve the problem. I would rather adapt down than up.



A sotve is a 10-50 not a 14-50. A 14-50 is an RV plug .


Yep. Any new stove will plug into a 50 amp 240 volt campground outlet. I guess that is another good reason for the 14-50 plug on the new EVSE. You can plug into any 50 amp 240 volt campground service. Done it twice. Our motorhome tow vehicle is an EV soooo... kinda handy.
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cwerdna
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Re: Nissan finally gets it with new 240V portable EVSE

Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:27 pm

scottf200 wrote:
cwerdna wrote:
scottf200 wrote:Re: 120v/240v -- Hardware-wise if you use the Tesla_Model_S/X/3 Gen 2 NEMA Adapters then they have circuitry in them that talk to the S/X/3 to tell it to automatically set the amps. That way users can't try to draw too many amps.
As for Tesla, I'm aware of what you're talking about, where the mobile connector, depending on the adapter attached will limit the amount drawn (presumably via the J1772 pilot signal, to which the car's OBC must comply). However, this isn't part of the car's UI. And, it assumes that if for example, a 14-30 adapter is attached, that the circuit itself is a 30 amp circuit, able to sustain a 24 amp continuous load. The driver doesn't need to screw with any UI. They select the adapter that fits and the car will not draw more than what's safe for a continuous load on that circuit.
In regards to the underlined, the Tesla UI still gives you the flexibility to lower the amps in the UI. Many of us do that to limit the total amps drawn for something like a garage subpanel. As an example, I lower my Tesla 14-50 plugged charging within the UI from 40a to 32a so that if the two Volts are charging we don't draw too much (subpanel). We do all 3 do schedule charging but you have to make sure you handle worse case scenarios (Volts doing charge 'immediates' instead of schedule).
Image

I'm not electrician and don't claim to know NEC, but it sounds like your installation and others that need to do that have a set up that isn't to code.

Back to the i3 case, I found a post that directly relates to what I was talking about. Some guy posted in the i3 Facebook group:
Any issues with an EV charger that has this warning? Note: Due to wiring limitations, this station should only be used at 25 amps continuous, although the EVSE is configured for 30 amps. I want to make sure that isn't something the i3 can't automatically handle.

and a reply that came back was
1. That's a code violation installing a device that knowingly draws 30A on a 25A circuit.
2. You can set the i3 to reduced charging but there's no way for it (or any EV) to know that it shouldn't pull what the EV is rated to provide. (The entire point of an EVSE [the J1772 protocol] is to report to the EV what it can provide. The EV subsequently draws up to that reported limit. If this EVSE cannot be set internally to only draw 25A, there's no way for the car to know that limit.)

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Re: Nissan finally gets it with new 240V portable EVSE

Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:29 am

Aside:
cwerdna wrote:I'm not electrician and don't claim to know NEC, but it sounds like your installation and others that need to do that have a set up that isn't to code.
I think this is the basic thing that you (and many) misunderstand. A given main-panel or sub-panel can have a sum total circuit breakers amperage that is > the main amperage coming into it. All homes have this.

Example:
200 amps coming into home,

150 amps = 10 circuits at 15 amp each,
100 amps = 5 circuits at 20 amp each,
080 amps = 2 circuits at (20*2) amps each for A/C and oven

330 amps max total ! The home owners just never max out each circuit so they always stay under 200 amps!!!

i.e. https://www.do-it-yourself-help.com/ima ... -chart.gif
Last edited by scottf200 on Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nissan finally gets it with new 240V portable EVSE

Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:38 am

^^^
While some of the values in the table are right/within the ballpark, some are WAY off.

Clock radio having an average load of 100 watts is insane. My over 25 year old clock radio when I plug it into my Kill-A-Watt doesn't even register as 1 watt, to my pleasant surprise. I have 5 other newer clock radios in the house to make the place sound occupied when I'm away and they have tiny AC adapters. I plugged in my power strip that has those 5 clock radios on it into my Kill-A-Watt and it registered as a 1 watt, in total.

The computer values are way off unless one is building a very power hungry gaming machine w/multiple high end video cards. My not very efficient ancient i7-860 machine w/1 SSD + 3 rotating hard drives all running, idles at under 70 watts. I don't recall power consumption reaching more than double if i max out the CPU and GPU by running benchmarks. If I turn on my 2 not very efficient LCDs (20" IPS and a 24" IPS), my total draw w/the LCDs is about 164 watts.

I have an LCD for use w/my security camera system that is way more efficient.

I used to use a 21" CRT monitor long ago and I posted this elsewhere:
Sony GDM-500PS 21" CRT monitor:
- 2 W in standby
- 93 W when in WinXP at desktop w/default background
- ~115 W when displaying an all white screen

I put together an i5-2500 machine for my dad, and IIRC, it idles at under 30 watts.

TV at 300 watts? Way of, as well. My former 27" CRT wasn't that high with an all white screen. I have an old Samsung HL61A750 DLP RPTV w/3 LED lights (no color wheel) and the figures at http://www.avsforum.com/forum/63-rear-p ... d-faq.html sound about right. I run mine in low or min.
User chuckolson made these measurements with his Kill A Watt P4400 Tester to show how power usage depends on LED control setting:
Auto 170 - 190 W.
Max 170 W.
High 140 W.
Medium 119 W.
Low 99 W.
Min 84 W.

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Re: Nissan finally gets it with new 240V portable EVSE

Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:06 am

cwerdna wrote:^^^
While some of the values in the table are right/within the ballpark, some are WAY off.

Clock radio having an average load of 100 watts is insane. My over 25 year old clock radio when I plug it into my Kill-A-Watt doesn't even register as 1 watt, to my pleasant surprise. I have 5 other newer clock radios in the house to make the place sound occupied when I'm away and they have tiny AC adapters. I plugged in my power strip that has those 5 clock radios on it into my Kill-A-Watt and it registered as a 1 watt, in total.

The computer values are way off unless one is building a very power hungry gaming machine w/multiple high end video cards. My not very efficient ancient i7-860 machine w/1 SSD + 3 rotating hard drives all running, idles at under 70 watts. I don't recall power consumption reaching more than double if i max out the CPU and GPU by running benchmarks. If I turn on my 2 not very efficient LCDs (20" IPS and a 24" IPS), my total draw w/the LCDs is about 164 watts.
[/quote]

This belongs in a forum about saving electricity...
Who cares about any of that chart? We are talking about the EVSE circuit....

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