nerk
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16A EVSE or 32A? Worth the cost of running a new wire?

Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:26 am

I have a leaf 2.0 on order and should be expecting delivery Feb/March, I'm currently looking into EVSE's a little more closely now...

My garage currently has a NEMA 6-30 plug for an electric heater that I rarely use and was thinking about using that for charging the Leaf... At first, I thought just change the plug upgrade the breaker and I'm good to go... But the more I read up on this, the more I see people mentioning using 8 gauge or thicker wire... which, I don't think I have... it's more likely it being a 10 gauge wire...

Charge point has an EVSE with a 16A draw that apparently uses the same double pole 20amp breaker that the NEMA 6-30 uses... My question is... how much longer would a full charge using a 16A EVSE over a 32A EVSE? Should I just bite the bullet splurge the extra cost to run another wire for a 32A EVSE?

My current thought process is (if at all logical),... Get a 16A EVSE use it for now (if the charge rate isn't too slow),... in time, if we get a PHEV for my wife/long commuting vehicle, run a new wire and use the 15-50 plug for the Nissan portable EVSE and have the PHEV use the 16A EVSE.

Then again,... I'm not sure how much longer we'll be living at this house...

Thoughts?

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Randy
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Re: 16A EVSE or 32A? Worth the cost of running a new wire?

Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:17 am

Are you going to be taking advantage of a time of use electricity rate?
How many miles is your daily commute?
Do you have any need to charge at maximum rate to recover miles (such as on weekends, etc)?

nerk
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Re: 16A EVSE or 32A? Worth the cost of running a new wire?

Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:30 am

daily commute is ~100km (~60mi I believe)

and yes we have TOU pricing, which is typically 7pm-7am off peak... I leave for work in the morning ~6:30am (when I wake up on time :D )

I may need the same 100km commute on weekends on occasion, but usually if we're travelling with baby and dog, we take the van...

The other thing to consider... In Ontario, Canada,... We have a up to 1000$ incentive on EVSE's, essentially 50% of the cost of the electrician and 50% the cost of an EVSE...

So if, the electrician charges me $500, I only get a $250 incentive, and the if the EVSE costs me $1000, which I think is what these chargepoint EVSE's are worth, I'll get an additional $500 incentive...

So, going with a 16A EVSE, will reduce the electrician cost significantly... as I won't need to run a new wire, change the breaker or anything... I would only have to relocate and change the plug so it can reach the car outside of the garage...

If I go the 32A route, or the portable Nissan EVSE, I'd need to run a new wire to the panel, new breaker and the electrician/material cost will go up significantly... (id probably run my own cable in this case and have the electrician just do the hook up)

jjeff
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Re: 16A EVSE or 32A? Worth the cost of running a new wire?

Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:30 am

I find it odd that you have a 30a outlet, possibly 10 gauge wiring and only a 20a breaker :?
If you truly have10 gauge wire I'd consider replacing the breaker with a 30a and purchase a 24a EVSE, or better yet a 30+ EVSE that you can dial down to 24a until you get maybe a 40 or 50a circuit.
You may have a hard time finding an EVSE with a 6-30 plug, L6-30 is easier to find so either replacing the plug on the EVSE or replacing the outlet with another more common 30a outlet(I'd suggest an L6-30) may be your best bet.
AFA charge times, with my 24ah Leaf battery I figure I roughly gain 16%/hr with a 16a EVSE and 30%/hr with a 30a(or maximum 27.5a with a Leaf EVSE). Most people would probably be perfectly fine with a 16a EVSE. Percentages gained with a 30kw Leaf will be less/hr but the ratio should be the same.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
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Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

jake14mw
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Re: 16A EVSE or 32A? Worth the cost of running a new wire?

Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:45 am

Do you have room in your breaker box for another circuit in addition to the existing run? How long of a wire run is it, and is it easy to run?

BrockWI
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Re: 16A EVSE or 32A? Worth the cost of running a new wire?

Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:48 am

We have two EVSE's an adjustable open source made by Brad and love it, although it plugs in to a 20a at 240 vac outlet so that one is set to 16 amps at 240 vac, this smaller unit can be run from our PV system, which is nice on sunny days. Our other evse is a larger clipper creek, the HSC40. We use that one 90% of the time becasue it is faster. There are times we don't have a lot of time at home and without the larger EVSE we couldn't use the Leaf again in the same day. Luckily I have relatively easy access between the panel in the basement and the garage and have one more spare conduit to the garage I am saving for an 80 amp EVSE, hopefully for the 2019 Leaf :)

So if you can, I would go larger, but the smaller 16a will work as well. I would check out what wire they ran to that outlet to make sure it is 10 gauge, it could be 12 gauge given it is on a 20 amp breaker.
Last edited by BrockWI on Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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goldbrick
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Re: 16A EVSE or 32A? Worth the cost of running a new wire?

Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:19 am

What do you mean by "just change the plug [and] upgrade the breaker" ? The current breaker should be sized to limit the current to the maximum amperage the existing wire is designed to handle. You can't just 'upgrade' the breaker without increasing the wire gauge unless the wiring was over-sized originally, which is unlikely IMHO.

alozzy
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Re: 16A EVSE or 32A? Worth the cost of running a new wire?

Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:01 pm

You can use the existing wiring and 6-30 receptacle with a Zencar 32A portable EVSE. When ordering it, you get to pick several amperage set points so in your case make sure one is 24A and another 32A. You can also order it with a 6-30 plug on it.

I just posted about that same EVSE in another thread:

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2099&p=517075#p517030
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
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davewill
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Re: 16A EVSE or 32A? Worth the cost of running a new wire?

Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:10 pm

jjeff wrote:I find it odd that you have a 30a outlet, possibly 10 gauge wiring and only a 20a breaker :?
If you truly have10 gauge wire I'd consider replacing the breaker with a 30a and purchase a 24a EVSE, or better yet a 30+ EVSE that you can dial down to 24a until you get maybe a 40 or 50a circuit.
You may have a hard time finding an EVSE with a 6-30 plug, L6-30 is easier to find so either replacing the plug on the EVSE or replacing the outlet with another more common 30a outlet(I'd suggest an L6-30) may be your best bet.
AFA charge times, with my 24ah Leaf battery I figure I roughly gain 16%/hr with a 16a EVSE and 30%/hr with a 30a(or maximum 27.5a with a Leaf EVSE). Most people would probably be perfectly fine with a 16a EVSE. Percentages gained with a 30kw Leaf will be less/hr but the ratio should be the same.


This is what you should do. ZenCar, OpenEVSE, GE and ClipperCreek all have EVSEs that will work on a 30a circuit giving you 24a charging. ClipperCreek will have 30 in the model number just to confuse you. You can change the outlet to match the cord of the EVSE you pick, you can install a 6-30 plug on the EVSE, or you can hard wire it. I think 24a will be fine (even 16a may be enough depending on your daily driving habits) for any overnight charging use, but if you buy an EVSE that's adjustable, then you can always have an electrician install a 40a circuit if you REALLY want that last 6-8a of charging capacity.

Do we even know what the charger on the new LEAF is capable of?
Last edited by davewill on Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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nerk
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Re: 16A EVSE or 32A? Worth the cost of running a new wire?

Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:22 pm

davewill wrote:This is what you should do. ZenCar, OpenEVSE, GE and ClipperCreek all have EVSEs that will work on a 30a circuit giving you 24a charging. ClipperCreek will have 30 in the model number just to confuse you. You can change the outlet to match the cord of the EVSE you pick, you can install a 6-30 plug on the EVSE, or you can hard wire it. I think 24a will be fine for any overnight charging use, but if you buy an EVSE that's adjustable, then you can always have an electrician install a 40a circuit if you REALLY want that last 6-8a or charging capacity.

Do we even know what the charger on the new LEAF is capable of?


Actually no... but that's why I'm asking here... I would love something that's directly compatible with the current plug I have now...

Also, I should clarify that I'm just guessing that its a 10 gauge wire... I don't know for a fact...

I did look into OpenEVSE, sadly they're not part of the incentive... But would still consider it an option considering the price and flexibility...

Clippercreek isn't on the list either, I just checked...

Here's what's eligible.. which is why I was eyeing the chargepoint EVSE...

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/vehicles/electric/electric-vehicle-charging-stations.shtml

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