scottf200
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Re: Everything you might want to know about the '18 LEAF engineering

Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:41 am

OrientExpress wrote:
scottf200 wrote:Various articles and forums are 'trashing' the 22 kW DC 'fast charging' of the new LEAF. 2nd DCFC 27kW; 3rd+ 22kW
DCFC EVSEs do throttle the charge rate, I've seen rates as low as 8kW during a charge session, and it is not uncommon to see rates in the 20kW and lower during a session.
You are suggesting it is a coincidence that many qualified people have seen the 2nd and 3rd DCFC charging session drop to 22 kW and you believe those are by chance all the fault of the EVSE and NOT the LEAF forcing that lower kW rate? From my reading and a few videos recently, a lot of experienced EV owners are seeing this.

The InsideEVs article is getting national exposure for sure.

Obviously, if you are using the LEAF for daily driving this is not an issue. It seems as the battery is 40 kWh tho people believe that is over the hump of long distance traveling.
100K EV miles and 80% EV usage
Volt = 53+ mile BEV up to 100 MPH, then 40 MPG hybrid with a 9 gal gas tank
'17 Tesla Model X 100D 'used'| RIP '16 P90DL Sig | 2011 Volt kid2 | 2016 for wife | 2012 kid1

SageBrush
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Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Everything you might want to know about the '18 LEAF engineering

Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:10 am

scottf200 wrote:Obviously, if you are using the LEAF for daily driving this is not an issue. It seems as the battery is 40 kWh tho people believe that is over the hump of long distance traveling.

Or they are just playing, trying out the new car.

So I'm not convinced that the majority of people will find the QC throttling a practical problem but it says loads about the battery itself -- none of it good. The shit will hit the fan come summer time when people find that their battery simmers in 40 - 45 C temps for months on end , for hours and hours at 100% SoC in the unsuspecting who plug in daily. The pack will not cool down enough to allow decent longevity. So I surmise ..
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles

LeftieBiker
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Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Everything you might want to know about the '18 LEAF engineering

Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:59 am

As with most enthusiast sites, there is lots of speculation, combined a shortage of interpretive abilities that make for questionable claims that get echo-chambered in the blogosphere.


One also encounters the usual paid shills whose job it is to loudly claim that there is nothing wrong with the sponsored product, and that anyone who thinks there is must be stupid.

In 2 weeks I will have an '18 for a week or so to evaluate the "Drive the Arc" charging network in Northern California. We plan to drive the entire network from Monterey to Lake Tahoe and back to get some background on long-distance driving with multiple DCFC charge events in various driving situations, (urban, flat road freeway, hilly freeway, mountain driving, and long downhill freeway).


Most likely we will never see his review of this trip.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

scottf200
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Re: Everything you might want to know about the '18 LEAF engineering

Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:02 pm

SageBrush wrote:
scottf200 wrote:Obviously, if you are using the LEAF for daily driving this is not an issue. It seems as the battery is 40 kWh tho people believe that is over the hump of long distance traveling.

Or they are just playing, trying out the new car.

So I'm not convinced that the majority of people will find the QC throttling a practical problem but it says loads about the battery itself -- none of it good. The shit will hit the fan come summer time when people find that their battery simmers in 40 - 45 C temps for months on end , for hours and hours at 100% SoC in the unsuspecting who plug in daily. The pack will not cool down enough to allow decent longevity. So I surmise ..

I've read enough in forums and such that these 40 kWh LEAF owners want to use them to travel some modest distances. ie. not weekly but a several times per year. Some have anticipated the 40 kWh and expected to to be equal or better than the previous LEAF. I was equally surprised.
100K EV miles and 80% EV usage
Volt = 53+ mile BEV up to 100 MPH, then 40 MPG hybrid with a 9 gal gas tank
'17 Tesla Model X 100D 'used'| RIP '16 P90DL Sig | 2011 Volt kid2 | 2016 for wife | 2012 kid1

LeftieBiker
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Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Everything you might want to know about the '18 LEAF engineering

Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:16 pm

I for one am now looking for a loaded '15 Leaf to get me through the next year or two, until a better car comes along. I might be able to baby a 40kwh Leaf and have modest capacity loss, but I'm not going to pay $350 a month to do beta testing for Nissan. If they want to loan me a car for free I'll do it.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 2189
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Everything you might want to know about the '18 LEAF engineering

Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:32 pm

scottf200 wrote:I've read enough in forums and such that these 40 kWh LEAF owners want to use them to travel some modest distances. ie. not weekly but a several times per year. Some have anticipated the 40 kWh and expected to to be equal or better than the previous LEAF. I was equally surprised.

There are always the buyers who try to push the EV envelope range as reported by EPA and then are disappointed when winter arrives or the battery degrades 5 - 10%.

They are just uninformed. I'm talking about the more reasonable group that buy a battery range a good 150% over their daily use and quite reasonably anticipate 10 years of use without drama for their $30k+ USD. Signs are all pointing towards disappointment by the 40 kWh LEAF for this group, and I find that sad. These are the second wave of EV buyers and I cannot shake the feeling that Nissan is setting them up for failure. They are not going to say "my bad. Next time Tesla." They are going to say "EV is a fail."
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles

scottf200
Posts: 1741
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Re: Everything you might want to know about the '18 LEAF engineering

Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:53 am

SageBrush wrote:
scottf200 wrote:I've read enough in forums and such that these 40 kWh LEAF owners want to use them to travel some modest distances. ie. not weekly but a several times per year. Some have anticipated the 40 kWh and expected to to be equal or better than the previous LEAF. I was equally surprised.

<snip>
They are just uninformed. I'm talking about the more reasonable group that buy a battery range a good 150% over their daily use and quite reasonably anticipate 10 years of use without drama for their $30k+ USD.
<snip>

My feeling is that a *large* percentage of buyers of this '150' mile LEAF are driving < 100 miles each day and will be fine with the degradation. Plus what is the climate of where most of these LEAFs will be purchased. Japan, Europe, and more moderate USA? I think it will continue to have large sales and that the next generation in 1-2 years will have an active liquid TMS. I'm absolutely am not nor have ever been a fan of their current TMS method but I think the '150' miles may have gotten them over a it-wont-matter hump. Yes, I do think Nissan screwed the Gen 1 buyers and will have some fall out from the Gen 1.5 buyers.

Some explanations for the range and questionable SOC meters 'linear' accuracy -- watch at x1.5 speed via gear icon
Bjørn Nyland - Published on Mar 4, 2018
In earlier videos about the new Leaf, I assumed that the battery had massive heat loss due to high load. It turns out that the SoC displayed in the screen is lower than what LeafSpy shows. The Leaf would go farther than expected. But it should get a firmware fix for that "bug" I talk about in the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbGQkj7DnXc
100K EV miles and 80% EV usage
Volt = 53+ mile BEV up to 100 MPH, then 40 MPG hybrid with a 9 gal gas tank
'17 Tesla Model X 100D 'used'| RIP '16 P90DL Sig | 2011 Volt kid2 | 2016 for wife | 2012 kid1

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Everything you might want to know about the '18 LEAF engineering

Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:41 am

My thoughts on the QC throttling issues are still in progress and with my "current" job, this could conceivably be an issue come July but the reality is

**Loved the full speed charging my S30 provided me but it still only covered 95% of my driving needs and covering that 5% was expensive.

** Not loving the slowdown that the 40 kwh LEAF has but the reality is, its still a MUCH MORE convenient car to drive and yeah E Pedal does a great job of allowing me to overlook things ;)

(yes, its pro LEAF!)

http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2018/03 ... -fast.html
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 5775 miles, 488 GIDs, 38 kwh 113.37 Ahr available, SOH 98.21, Hx 115.75
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OrientExpress
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Re: Everything you might want to know about the '18 LEAF engineering

Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:22 am

Dave:

I just read your latest blog post, (spoiler the interesting stuff is not until the end! :D) but it looks like a typical 2018 QC session is doing the usual throttling at about 50% for temperature management.
2018 LEAF SL
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scottf200
Posts: 1741
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Re: Everything you might want to know about the '18 LEAF engineering

Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:23 am

OrientExpress wrote:Dave:

I just read your latest blog post, (spoiler the interesting stuff is not until the end! :D) but it looks like a typical 2018 QC session is doing the usual throttling at about 50% for temperature management.


So, OrientExpress , you are confirming that 22 kW is expected on the 40 kWh LEAF when DCFC charging.

"Finally; I saw a Bolt charging at 130 amps at EVGO EV2 at Tacoma Mall and was impressed until it hit about 55% and the rate dropped to 60 amps or about 22 KW..."
100K EV miles and 80% EV usage
Volt = 53+ mile BEV up to 100 MPH, then 40 MPG hybrid with a 9 gal gas tank
'17 Tesla Model X 100D 'used'| RIP '16 P90DL Sig | 2011 Volt kid2 | 2016 for wife | 2012 kid1

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