RonSwanson
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:13 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Love and Hate about our new Leaf 2018

Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:43 am

SageBrush wrote:
RonSwanson wrote:
SageBrush wrote:Just remember that the warranty only kicks in around 60-65% of new capacity and now that Nissan has a refurb battery business, I would not count on getting a new battery if the warranty activates.

All this means that a potential buyer has to have a very clear idea of the demands the LEAF will be asked to carry. The car will last 2 -10 years. YMMW


2-10 years is quite a span. Does this mean if I drive a lot and in hot weather my car is more likely to only last closer to 2 years rather than 10?

Yes, but "last" is somewhat misleading. "Meet your needs" is more to the point. If the car only has to go 50 miles between charges then 10 years; but if you require 100 miles between charges then I would not count on more than two years.


I have a 35 mile commute each way in a hot climate. Guess I can cross this one off my list!

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9412
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Love and Hate about our new Leaf 2018

Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:06 am

I have a 35 mile commute each way in a hot climate. Guess I can cross this one off my list!


The car MIGHT give you that range for three full years, but if you want to be sure, then a Bolt would be better.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 2804
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Love and Hate about our new Leaf 2018

Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:01 pm

RonSwanson wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
RonSwanson wrote:
2-10 years is quite a span. Does this mean if I drive a lot and in hot weather my car is more likely to only last closer to 2 years rather than 10?

Yes, but "last" is somewhat misleading. "Meet your needs" is more to the point. If the car only has to go 50 miles between charges then 10 years; but if you require 100 miles between charges then I would not count on more than two years.


I have a 35 mile commute each way in a hot climate. Guess I can cross this one off my list!

Nissan warrants somewhere between 60-65% of new range for 100k miles of 8 yrs, whichever comes first.
New EPA range is 150 miles so the warranty assures you of 90 -100 EPA miles.

Only you know how your driving and conditions match up to EPA. I always do quite a bit better than EPA; lots of people do quite a bit worse.

Regarding EPA miles: the test is fine but it has assumptions you should be aware of:
No lead foot
Dry roads
No wind
Fairly mild weather
~ 65 mph highway driving

As these variables in your daily driving diverge from the test, your fuel economy will too.
So do you have to discount the EPA miles by a big additional chunk ? It depends. My advice is simple: if you have alternative charging that can cover the atypical driving day then most people will be within +/- 10% of EPA miles and you can size the battery for a usual day. If odd days are going to strand you then err on the conservative side and figure a good 30% cushion.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

canswim
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:59 am
Delivery Date: 23 Jan 2018

Re: Love and Hate about our new Leaf 2018

Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:59 am

After 4 weeks with the car here are my thoughts

Love:
  • Propilot
  • ePedal
  • remote heater activation
  • exterior style
  • interior space
  • trunk space
  • overall driving experience
  • range - perfect for my daily 20k commute

Hate: (bit of a strong word - more dislikes)
  • Heated steering wheel - too hot!
  • Horn - gets a laugh from my kids every time
  • Unlit unlock buttons
  • Range - its such a nice car to drive I would we could take it on longer trips

Reddy
Posts: 1534
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:09 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: Love and Hate about our new Leaf 2018

Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:12 am

RonSwanson wrote:I have a 35 mile commute each way in a hot climate. Guess I can cross this one off my list!
In your situation, I would only lease, 2 yrs, and for less than $200/mo. Right now we don't know how long the 40 KWh 2018 battery will last, but if the 30KWh 2017 battery is any indication, you will have difficulties making 70 mi after 2-3 yrs. Unless you're able or willing to charge at work or along the way, be prepared for significant degradation. I hope for Nissan's sake (and EVs in general), but at this point it's "Fool me thrice.....".
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 45.80 AHr; 45,000 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

RonSwanson
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:13 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Love and Hate about our new Leaf 2018

Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:24 pm

Reddy wrote:
RonSwanson wrote:I have a 35 mile commute each way in a hot climate. Guess I can cross this one off my list!
In your situation, I would only lease, 2 yrs, and for less than $200/mo. Right now we don't know how long the 40 KWh 2018 battery will last, but if the 30KWh 2017 battery is any indication, you will have difficulties making 70 mi after 2-3 yrs. Unless you're able or willing to charge at work or along the way, be prepared for significant degradation. I hope for Nissan's sake (and EVs in general), but at this point it's "Fool me thrice.....".

I do have 12 chargers at my work to use and I can charge at home. Are you saying charging the battery when 1/2 discharged or so as opposed to waiting until it's closer to fully discharged would degrade the battery slower?

goldbrick
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Colorado front range

Re: Love and Hate about our new Leaf 2018

Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:51 pm

The various different lithium based batteries used in EV's vary but in general, for all Lithium batteries, they last longest when used in the middle range of their SOC (state of charge). Ideally, charge when the battery reaches 40% and get it back up to 80%. Below or above those limits isn't a big deal and everyone does it all the time but staying within those limits is probably the best you can do for the battery life. The worst thing to do is to leave the battery for long periods at very low or very high charge. For a Leaf, this usually means 100% charge. Heat is also contributes to battery degradation.

In short, avoid having the car sit at 100% charge for longer periods, especially when it's hot. Avoid high battery temperatures as much as possible and don't leave the battery at very low SOC for long periods. The last one is easy to avoid, the first, not so much depending on your usage conditions.

Reddy
Posts: 1534
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:09 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: Love and Hate about our new Leaf 2018

Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:29 pm

RonSwanson wrote:
Reddy wrote:
RonSwanson wrote:I have a 35 mile commute each way in a hot climate. Guess I can cross this one off my list!
In your situation, I would only lease, 2 yrs, and for less than $200/mo. Right now we don't know how long the 40 KWh 2018 battery will last, but if the 30KWh 2017 battery is any indication, you will have difficulties making 70 mi after 2-3 yrs. Unless you're able or willing to charge at work or along the way, be prepared for significant degradation. I hope for Nissan's sake (and EVs in general), but at this point it's "Fool me thrice.....".

I do have 12 chargers at my work to use and I can charge at home. Are you saying charging the battery when 1/2 discharged or so as opposed to waiting until it's closer to fully discharged would degrade the battery slower?
Ron, with the option of charging on both ends, you’re good to go for many years. The “best” charging protocol, in theory, is to charge the least amount to meet your needs, around 50% SOC. For example, for 70 mi RT at about 3.5 mi/KWh, you’ll consume about 20 KWh. Thus, with a 40 KWh battery, you should charge between 10 and 30 KWh. Of, course you’ll want to save some extra for emergencies. This is actually a pretty good choice, as long as the battery doesn’t degrade during your years of commuting. Unfortunately, you should plan on degradation, maybe 5% per year (we don’t know how much the 40 KWh battery will degrade, but in your hot environment it will be worse than others). Can you still make your commute after 40% degradation? 0.6 * 150 mi = 90 mi. So yes, but it could get tight in inclement weather. However, with the possibility of charging at work, you’re golden. I would go for it, drive the ‘ell of it. Charge to 80% as much as you can. You might need to top up at work on bad weather days, but maybe you’ll get 2-3 years out of it without problems. Worst case, Nissan has to give you a new battery under warranty.
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 45.80 AHr; 45,000 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

RonSwanson
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:13 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Love and Hate about our new Leaf 2018

Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:31 am

Reddy wrote:
RonSwanson wrote:
Reddy wrote:In your situation, I would only lease, 2 yrs, and for less than $200/mo. Right now we don't know how long the 40 KWh 2018 battery will last, but if the 30KWh 2017 battery is any indication, you will have difficulties making 70 mi after 2-3 yrs. Unless you're able or willing to charge at work or along the way, be prepared for significant degradation. I hope for Nissan's sake (and EVs in general), but at this point it's "Fool me thrice.....".

I do have 12 chargers at my work to use and I can charge at home. Are you saying charging the battery when 1/2 discharged or so as opposed to waiting until it's closer to fully discharged would degrade the battery slower?
Ron, with the option of charging on both ends, you’re good to go for many years. The “best” charging protocol, in theory, is to charge the least amount to meet your needs, around 50% SOC. For example, for 70 mi RT at about 3.5 mi/KWh, you’ll consume about 20 KWh. Thus, with a 40 KWh battery, you should charge between 10 and 30 KWh. Of, course you’ll want to save some extra for emergencies. This is actually a pretty good choice, as long as the battery doesn’t degrade during your years of commuting. Unfortunately, you should plan on degradation, maybe 5% per year (we don’t know how much the 40 KWh battery will degrade, but in your hot environment it will be worse than others). Can you still make your commute after 40% degradation? 0.6 * 150 mi = 90 mi. So yes, but it could get tight in inclement weather. However, with the possibility of charging at work, you’re golden. I would go for it, drive the ‘ell of it. Charge to 80% as much as you can. You might need to top up at work on bad weather days, but maybe you’ll get 2-3 years out of it without problems. Worst case, Nissan has to give you a new battery under warranty.

Thanks Reddy! Very helpful post. You say "charge to 80% as much as you can" - so this means it's best not to completely charge?

Most people I talk to are saying to lease this car only but that's not possible in my position since I'll be driving more than 12k miles per year. I've found I can actually get this car for a pretty good deal then get over $10k back in federal and state rebates/incentives.

WetEV
Posts: 2328
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Love and Hate about our new Leaf 2018

Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:28 am

RonSwanson wrote:Thanks Reddy! Very helpful post. You say "charge to 80% as much as you can" - so this means it's best not to completely charge?


For improved battery life Li-ion batteries should spend as little time near full charge and near empty as possible.

Some people charge to "full charge" just before departure. This seems to be fine. I do this before a long trip.

"Full charge" and the SOC meter reading 100% isn't exactly 100%, as there is a top margin. Empty, turtle and SOC meter reading 0% are not exactly 0% as well, there is a bottom margin.

RonSwanson wrote:Most people I talk to are saying to lease this car only but that's not possible in my position since I'll be driving more than 12k miles per year. I've found I can actually get this car for a pretty good deal then get over $10k back in federal and state rebates/incentives.


I've seen 15k mile leases. Can't hurt to ask and compare. I purchased both Leaf's.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

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