pkarza
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:26 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Sep 2013
Leaf Number: 412687

a little help with range bar on dash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:25 pm

Just drove a 300KM trip with a small one hour l2 charge top up in -15C (Record low in April)

I arrived at my destination with 20 km remaining on the distance bar -

Here is my question:

Because our 2013 Leaf reminded us to charge at around 28 km remaming and the 2018 did not - is the notification based on 'actual' kms remaining a reserve of KWatts after exhausting this?

The dealer does not know...

It would be nice for all of us to know.

Phil

cwerdna
Posts: 7778
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: a little help with range bar on dash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:06 pm

Forget the guess-o-meter (GOM): viewtopic.php?p=271853#p271853.

LBW and VLBW sound at a specific number of gids. On 24 kWh cars, they sounded as 49 and 24 gids, respectively: viewtopic.php?p=387707#p387707

The figures have changed on the 2018 but I don't know them off the top of my head.

Battery capacity and energy stored in the battery are measured in kWh (kilowatt hours), not "KWatts".

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

pkarza
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:26 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Sep 2013
Leaf Number: 412687

Re: a little help with range bar on dash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:12 pm

Gord -

Thanks for the post and yes, I was a little lazy in not putting the complete kwh wording in - but your answer didn't answer my question.

is the reserve kwh s part of the bar or after?

Sorry for the incomplete kwh again in this post.

cwerdna
Posts: 7778
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: a little help with range bar on dash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:26 pm

I don't understand your question. There are 3 sets/stages of warnings: low battery warning, very low battery warning then turtle before dead.

I told you the # of gids that LBW and VLBW sound at on 24 kWh Leafs and that those are higher on the 40 kWh Leaf.

Leaf Spy can display and estimated kWh in the battery value but it's just based upon the # of gids * a constant.

The default setting in Leaf Spy (for that constant) is that each gid is worth 77.5 watt-hours but as Turbo3 posted (auithor of Leaf Spy) on March 15th (you'll need to scroll down ton viewtopic.php?f=44&t=14285&hilit=gid+nissan&start=1770 as I'm having direct linking problems:
Turbo3 wrote:An exact Wh is not going to be possible. They are all estimates. A battery is not like a gas tank.

LeafSpy uses two different ways to calculate Wh used. One is based on a change in Gids and the other is based on battery energy level changes.

Wh per Gid is not a precise number. The default is 77.5 Wh per Gid but you can change that in Settings/Battery. Also Gids when SOC is high seem to have less energy than Gids when SOC is low. After a full change the first bar goes away pretty quickly compared to later in the drive.

The Battery energy level has <1Wh resolution which looks great but a battery can change its available energy just by having the battery temperature increase or decrease. Battery energy level changes also includes all accessory energy use....

I don't know anything about your bars and frankly, to me, it's not relevant nor useful. You are FAR better off using Leaf Spy and looking at battery gids.

Without Leaf Spy, you'll note that LBW and VLBW should sound at a certain % state of charge and that will go up as the battery degrades. I asked about this long ago at viewtopic.php?t=17895. I can confirm the latter.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

pkarza
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:26 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Sep 2013
Leaf Number: 412687

Re: a little help with range bar on dash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:31 pm

Do you own a 2018?

The lights of which you speak do not exist.

Image


Please look at this page...

https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/5/16254 ... ures-specs

pkarza
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:26 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Sep 2013
Leaf Number: 412687

Re: a little help with range bar on dash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:32 pm

oh - and I have Leaf Spy Pro..

cwerdna
Posts: 7778
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: a little help with range bar on dash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:34 pm

No I don't have an '18. I have test driven the '18 Leaf once in December 2017. We had up to 1 hour with the car.

You'll note a 99% state of charge value there in the pic. Without Leaf Spy, you should pay attention to that, for now. Forget the GOM (150 miles in that pic).

Not sure what you mean by "The lights of which you speak do not exist". If you're talking about gids, of course they're not displayed on the dash of any Leaf. You need Leaf Spy. Please see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgE8lmySdMI.

LBW and VLBW are not specific lights. They're the first warning then second warning, audible via nav system if you have it, otherwise you might just hear a beep. At the 1st warning, a yellow icon should come up on the dash, as well.

If the is talking to too slow or repetitive, use the gear icon on PCs or Macs to increase the playback speed.

In the video at https://www.edmunds.com/nissan/leaf/201 ... r-end.html, they drove an '11 Leaf until dead. At
- about 1:15 they hit LBW
- at about 1:33: VLBW
- at about 1:56, turtle (The colors seem off on some of the video.)
- at 2:19, they're past turtle and speed is dropping.

('11 and '12 Leafs did NOT have a % state of charge display. That didn't appear on Leafs until model year '13. Also, Leaf Spy didn't exist back. Not sure if folks had figured out battery gids that early on (May 2011).)

For pre-18 Leafs, the warning levels for LBW, VLBW, and turtle were never based upon any specific # of miles or km of estimated (guessed) range remaining. LBW and VLBW sounded at specific gid levels. See earlier posts.
Last edited by cwerdna on Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 8652
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: a little help with range bar on dash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:44 pm

I THINK I know what the OP means, and doesn't understand.

* The charge bars are not useful, except in a very broad sense, for determining remaining range. The range estimator is somewhat useful, but is also not to be relied upon. Think of them as an unreliable fuel gauge. The % State of Charge (SOC) display is much more useful.

* Cwerdna is talking about low range/charge warnings that come on only when needed. If you have the car's audio options set for voice announcements, the car should announce "Low battery" when you reach a preset SOC (roughly 19% on a 24kwh Leaf). It will make a slightly more dire announcement when you reach roughly 10% SOC. With the first warning you should get a flashing yellow icon - possibly the range estimate will flash.

* The car has a hidden reserve that does not appear as normal estimated range. It is significant, but we don't yet have a solid kwh number for it.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 2213
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: a little help with range bar on dash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:16 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
* The car has a hidden reserve that does not appear as normal estimated range. It is significant, but we don't yet have a solid kwh number for it.

When does it show up in relation to reported SoC ?

I think you answered OP well: he should find the screen that shows SoC remaining, and with experience or arithmetic he will learn how far one percent takes him.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles

pkarza
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:26 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Sep 2013
Leaf Number: 412687

Re: a little help with range bar on dash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:19 pm

Yes I think this makes sense. Way different than the 2013

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