Newporttom
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Any chance the 2018 is a "one off"?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:41 pm

Been thinking about the 2019 E-plus having new batteries in them and a TMS. Seems if you've done all the management for a new batteries and a TMS, the simplest, easiest thing to do when developing a lower cost version is to have them be identical except one has a smaller battery.

So the 2019 base editions would be 40 and the E-plus versions would be 60 but both have the LG Chem batteries and a TMS,

There is also supposed to bigger motor, faster chargers etc. I suppose you could maintain 2 systems, but seems it would be simpler all around to have everything the same except battery size.

Would solve Nissan's biggest criticism across the board.

In my daydreaming about this, I envision pressure to get the new model out. The new car design is ready but not the new battery/charger, etc. So rather than wait till 2019, they put out a new design with the same "guts", and when 2019 models come out they ALL have the same motors, batteries, charger, but there is also an E-Plus version.

It would make the 2018 a "one-off" model year.
2012 Nissan Leaf SL - Cayenne Red
Accepted 12/14/11

LeftieBiker
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Re: Any chance the 2018 is a "one off"?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:12 pm

Been thinking about the 2019 E-plus having new batteries in them and a TMS. Seems if you've done all the management for a new batteries and a TMS, the simplest, easiest thing to do when developing a lower cost version is to have them be identical except one has a smaller battery.


Unfortunately, the cheapest thing Nissan could do would be to keep producing the un-cooled 40kwh pack (I'm still reserving the right to name it the "Lettuce Pack" if it proves as bad as suspected) in the lower end Leafs. As long as they aren't looking at replacing most of them under warranty, anyway.
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PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

RonDawg
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Re: Any chance the 2018 is a "one off"?

Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:04 pm

For a while, Nissan was simultaneously producing cars with both the 3.8 and 6.6 kW on board chargers, and yet was still able to offer a lower priced model. So it's possible to do so while having some unique parts.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar on 11/21/2015 at 26,435 miles.
Lease returned on 12/23/2015. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL

LeftieBiker
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Re: Any chance the 2018 is a "one off"?

Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:30 pm

RonDawg wrote:For a while, Nissan was simultaneously producing cars with both the 3.8 and 6.6 kW on board chargers, and yet was still able to offer a lower priced model. So it's possible to do so while having some unique parts.


I'm not sure what your point is here, but in the case of the onboard chargers they introduced a new, more expensive one while keeping the older, presumably cheaper design for their less expensive Leafs. This is comparable to offering a completely new 60kwh pack with TMS for the SL and maybe optionally the SV, while keeping this 40kwh uncooled pack for the less expensive versions of the car. Coming up with two completely new battery packs would be much more expensive for them. If things go as it's seeming likely they will go, they might want to consider offering the 24kwh Lizard pack again...
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PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Evoforce
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Re: Any chance the 2018 is a "one off"?

Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:49 am

Sorry, but the Lizard pack is as bad as the rest in hot climates. I guess if you can claim you got 6-8 more months out of it overall, someone could say that is better.
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

LeftieBiker
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Re: Any chance the 2018 is a "one off"?

Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:43 am

Evoforce wrote:Sorry, but the Lizard pack is as bad as the rest in hot climates. I guess if you can claim you got 6-8 more months out of it overall, someone could say that is better.


I'm talking about bringing back the Lizard pack for normal climates. No Leaf should be run in Arizona and similar climates if there is a choice.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

RonDawg
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Re: Any chance the 2018 is a "one off"?

Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:52 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
RonDawg wrote:For a while, Nissan was simultaneously producing cars with both the 3.8 and 6.6 kW on board chargers, and yet was still able to offer a lower priced model. So it's possible to do so while having some unique parts.


I'm not sure what your point is here, but in the case of the onboard chargers they introduced a new, more expensive one while keeping the older, presumably cheaper design for their less expensive Leafs. This is comparable to offering a completely new 60kwh pack with TMS for the SL and maybe optionally the SV, while keeping this 40kwh uncooled pack for the less expensive versions of the car. Coming up with two completely new battery packs would be much more expensive for them. If things go as it's seeming likely they will go, they might want to consider offering the 24kwh Lizard pack again...



I'm replying to this specific part of the OP's post: "There is also supposed to bigger motor, faster chargers etc. I suppose you could maintain 2 systems, but seems it would be simpler all around to have everything the same except battery size." Nissan was able to offer two charger speeds (three if you include CHAdeMO) and yet were able to keep the price down.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar on 11/21/2015 at 26,435 miles.
Lease returned on 12/23/2015. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL

Evoforce
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Re: Any chance the 2018 is a "one off"?

Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:53 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Evoforce wrote:Sorry, but the Lizard pack is as bad as the rest in hot climates. I guess if you can claim you got 6-8 more months out of it overall, someone could say that is better.


I'm talking about bringing back the Lizard pack for normal climates. No Leaf should be run in Arizona and similar climates if there is a choice.


So technically not just Arizona but at least a third if not half of the United States. Then for the "qualifying" States we would still be left with a battery that will still be greatly shorter in lifespan than every other brand.
Last edited by Evoforce on Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

LeftieBiker
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Re: Any chance the 2018 is a "one off"?

Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:54 pm

I'll let you have the last word on that.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Evoforce
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Re: Any chance the 2018 is a "one off"?

Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:57 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:I'll let you have the last word on that.
:)
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

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