Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

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tuningin

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2018
Messages
59
Location
Southern California
At 3000 miles, according to LeafSpy I’ve already lost 2.7%. It’s not even summer yet. Average temp of 70 degree ambient. Average battery temp 82 degrees. No DCFC. Usually charging to 80% with weekly 100% to cell balance and immediately driving so it doesn’t stay at hat high SOC.
 
I think it's way too early to tell. SOH, Hx and AHr numbers are fluctuate a bit and can be manipulated up/down a bit, at least on pre-18's.

We'll have a better idea after either '18s have passed thru 2 summers in hot/warmer climates or when we hear of the 1st capacity bar loss. Will be very interested to see how '18 Leafs in Phoenix, Texas and Florida do esp. compared to the '16 30 kWh batteries.
 
I agree, way too early to say.
The battery temp 12F over ambient though is the worrisome number.
 
SageBrush said:
I agree, way too early to say.
The battery temp 12F over ambient though is the worrisome number.

yes, it is too early.

12 degrees over ambient is nothing. maybe he just charged... Darn if you are worried about the battery being at 82 degrees, then how do you sleep at night...
 
powersurge said:
SageBrush said:
I agree, way too early to say.
The battery temp 12F over ambient though is the worrisome number.

yes, it is too early.

12 degrees over ambient is nothing. maybe he just charged... Darn if you are worried about the battery being at 82 degrees, then how do you sleep at night...

No, that was the average over the entire trip. Not after charging. And I don’t use DCFC.

The concern is that the battery didn’t even see high temps and already has degradation.

If the delta is 12 degrees, imagine what it will be on a 95 degree day and over hot roads.

Maybe it is too early, but my daily trip is very consistent and the 20 kWh that I add everyday at the EVSE used to add 50% now adds 53% with each charge. 20% to 100% takes less kWh at the EVSE.
 
tuningin said:
At 3000 miles, according to LeafSpy I’ve already lost 2.7%.

Don't Panic!

At least not yet. I've seen 3% variation according to Leafspy in a single drive. Different types of driving/charging in different conditions will increase the estimate, and other types of driving/charging will decrease the estimate. Need more than a single point to try to understand what is happening...

Please keep a graph, or continue to post at regular intervals so we can understand what is happening.
 
I charge to 100% every night with my ‘15. No indicated degradation and effective range was better than new until I put new tires on. 96,000km. 12 bars. Owned since new.

I’m hoping to get the same results when my ‘18 shows up.
 
I have driven my Leaf 2018 now for 5000km and I haven't seen any fluctuation in SOH, only going downwards. What I have seen is that it seems to drop more after DCFC. I usually use AC charge at home and SOH usually drops about 0.01% if at all. One day I had to do DCFC twice and SOH dropped 0.26% in one day!

Now after 5000km 11 DCFC and 71 AC charges I am at 98.57%. It feels the drop might be accelerating now that it is getting warmer and no more sub zero temps in Finland. Just two weeks ago I was at 99.40% SOH.
 
PETRIKLL, you cannot be measuring the car with Leafspy so much and be worried about "DEGREDATION". Your car is only 3 months old, and the battery has not even begun to break in... A couple of % points is nothing..

Do us all a favor. Put away your Leafspy, and drive the car... Do a Leafspy every 6-12 months to keep an eye on the battery.

If in 6 months, your battery is at 90% SOH, then you can involve Nissan with a problem...
 
I've been recording my Leaf Spy stats weekly since picking up the car in February.

After 3 months, SOH has gone from 99.66% to 99.08%.

I've put 2300 miles, 6 QCs and 72 L2 charges on the car so far.
 
odd84 said:
I've been recording my Leaf Spy stats weekly since picking up the car in February.

After 3 months, SOH has gone from 99.66% to 99.08%.

I've put 2300 miles, 6 QCs and 72 L2 charges on the car so far.

I wouldn't bother with it that often. For me, once a month was enough and only because I was trying to help this forum compare. I will bet that almost no one has even reviewed those old threads from the past.

I was in particular tracking degradation between two practically identical cars but with different batteries. One had a lizard battery and the other had the original chemistry. The result in Arizona was not much difference. After both cars had new batteries installed, and in a different observation between the cars, result is, driving a car a medium amount and the other a small amount over the last year has shown that there is almost the same degradation between the two.

These are older 2011 Leafs. We look forward to your tracking the 2018 Leaf. I am not sure you want to track it in such small increments. The numbers do fluctuate up and down. Good luck!
 
Yes, I agree that it is not necessary to measure every week. you will waste a lot of time and worry even more with minor fluctuations....

its like weighing yourself 3x/ day when you are on a diet. Not necessary. If you want, every 3-6 months is good....
 
odd84 said:
I've been recording my Leaf Spy stats weekly since picking up the car in February.

After 3 months, SOH has gone from 99.66% to 99.08%.

I've put 2300 miles, 6 QCs and 72 L2 charges on the car so far.

Take out a single day and mine would have been almost identical to yours. details available in blog
 
tuningin said:
At 3000 miles, according to LeafSpy I’ve already lost 2.7%. It’s not even summer yet. Average temp of 70 degree ambient. Average battery temp 82 degrees. No DCFC. Usually charging to 80% with weekly 100% to cell balance and immediately driving so it doesn’t stay at hat high SOC.

Stop charging to full to balance cells. Previous LEAF packs needed this done several days in a row to see any change anyway. Once a week won't do much. Since I have had my LEAF, I have charged to full 14 times but only to collect a baseline on GIDs and ahr available. I don't plan to charge for anything other than road trips. Normal day to day? Don't need to.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
tuningin said:
At 3000 miles, according to LeafSpy I’ve already lost 2.7%. It’s not even summer yet. Average temp of 70 degree ambient. Average battery temp 82 degrees. No DCFC. Usually charging to 80% with weekly 100% to cell balance and immediately driving so it doesn’t stay at hat high SOC.

Stop charging to full to balance cells. Previous LEAF packs needed this done several days in a row to see any change anyway. Once a week won't do much. Since I have had my LEAF, I have charged to full 14 times but only to collect a baseline on GIDs and ahr available. I don't plan to charge for anything other than road trips. Normal day to day? Don't need to.

Charge to full everyday or don't charge to full unless for road trips. I'm not sure I'm following what you are recommending.
 
tuningin said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
tuningin said:
At 3000 miles, according to LeafSpy I’ve already lost 2.7%. It’s not even summer yet. Average temp of 70 degree ambient. Average battery temp 82 degrees. No DCFC. Usually charging to 80% with weekly 100% to cell balance and immediately driving so it doesn’t stay at hat high SOC.

Stop charging to full to balance cells. Previous LEAF packs needed this done several days in a row to see any change anyway. Once a week won't do much. Since I have had my LEAF, I have charged to full 14 times but only to collect a baseline on GIDs and ahr available. I don't plan to charge for anything other than road trips. Normal day to day? Don't need to.

Charge to full everyday or don't charge to full unless for road trips. I'm not sure I'm following what you are recommending.

Charging to full to balance cells is not needed.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
tuningin said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
Stop charging to full to balance cells. Previous LEAF packs needed this done several days in a row to see any change anyway. Once a week won't do much. Since I have had my LEAF, I have charged to full 14 times but only to collect a baseline on GIDs and ahr available. I don't plan to charge for anything other than road trips. Normal day to day? Don't need to.

Charge to full everyday or don't charge to full unless for road trips. I'm not sure I'm following what you are recommending.

Charging to full to balance cells is not needed.

This is bad advice. Balancing of cells is cruical to the long term lifespan of any multicell battery.
 
NavyCuda said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
tuningin said:
Charge to full everyday or don't charge to full unless for road trips. I'm not sure I'm following what you are recommending.

Charging to full to balance cells is not needed.

This is bad advice. Balancing of cells is cruical to the long term lifespan of any multicell battery.

This is true and the reason why cells are balancing all the time. The benefit of top end balancing is for maximum range but it heavily outweighed by the risk of greater degradation
 
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