NavyCuda
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:14 pm
Delivery Date: 24 Jun 2015
Leaf Number: 329051

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Mon May 21, 2018 6:04 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
NavyCuda wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Charging to full to balance cells is not needed.


This is bad advice. Balancing of cells is cruical to the long term lifespan of any multicell battery.


This is true and the reason why cells are balancing all the time. The benefit of top end balancing is for maximum range but it heavily outweighed by the risk of greater degradation


Depends on use case. I’m pushing my battery much harder now than I did previously. I used to draw down to ~50% and fully charge on both ends of my trip, balancing twice a day. Now I draw down to 10-25% SOC, L1 to ~85%, draw down to 10-20% again then fully charge when I get home.

As I sit here at the quick charger, I have 98,156km and 12/12bars. 2015 SV I bought new off the lot. ~8weeks until my 2018 arrives!

tuningin
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:50 pm
Delivery Date: 19 Jan 2018
Location: Southern California

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Thu May 24, 2018 9:23 am

Trying to only charge to 80% everyday, which is a manual process since Nissan didn't include that feature) and then seeing degradation anyhow makes it not worth the effort. I'm just going to charge to 100% and let them deal with the warranty battery swap if it comes to that.
Daily Commuter:
2018 Nissan Leaf SV w/Tech

Other Car:
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR

NavyCuda
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:14 pm
Delivery Date: 24 Jun 2015
Leaf Number: 329051

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Thu May 24, 2018 10:44 am

tuningin wrote:Trying to only charge to 80% everyday, which is a manual process since Nissan didn't include that feature) and then seeing degradation anyhow makes it not worth the effort. I'm just going to charge to 100% and let them deal with the warranty battery swap if it comes to that.


Charging to 80% is only ideal for long term storage. Only charging to 80% and not balancing the cells will negatively effect the lifespan of the battery.

tuningin
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:50 pm
Delivery Date: 19 Jan 2018
Location: Southern California

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Thu May 24, 2018 1:22 pm

NavyCuda wrote:
tuningin wrote:Trying to only charge to 80% everyday, which is a manual process since Nissan didn't include that feature) and then seeing degradation anyhow makes it not worth the effort. I'm just going to charge to 100% and let them deal with the warranty battery swap if it comes to that.


Charging to 80% is only ideal for long term storage. Only charging to 80% and not balancing the cells will negatively effect the lifespan of the battery.


I wouldn't agree that there is a consensus on this. Charging from to 100% heats up the packs. Heat=bad for battery longevity. This is based on whitepaper studies on Lithium Ion batteries. But I'm sure that there are always exceptions and these studies are now a decade old so maybe chemistry has helped.
Daily Commuter:
2018 Nissan Leaf SV w/Tech

Other Car:
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12978
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Thu May 24, 2018 2:58 pm

tuningin wrote:
NavyCuda wrote:
tuningin wrote:Trying to only charge to 80% everyday, which is a manual process since Nissan didn't include that feature) and then seeing degradation anyhow makes it not worth the effort. I'm just going to charge to 100% and let them deal with the warranty battery swap if it comes to that.


Charging to 80% is only ideal for long term storage. Only charging to 80% and not balancing the cells will negatively effect the lifespan of the battery.


I wouldn't agree that there is a consensus on this. Charging from to 100% heats up the packs. Heat=bad for battery longevity. This is based on whitepaper studies on Lithium Ion batteries. But I'm sure that there are always exceptions and these studies are now a decade old so maybe chemistry has helped.


+1 on that. Long term storage recommendation is actually around 40% SOC. Top end balance likely increases range but no more than a few miles at most but the reality is the chemistry Nissan uses is simply not robust enough to handle warmth (not hot...just warm is enough) or high SOC.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 5775 miles, 488 GIDs, 38 kwh 113.37 Ahr available, SOH 98.21, Hx 115.75
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

alozzy
Posts: 986
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Thu May 24, 2018 3:13 pm

Why charge to 100% all the time, gambling that it does no harm, if you don't need the range on a daily basis? Sure, occasional charges to 100% make sense, but those don't have to be very frequent and one can choose to do those when it's not hot out and when you know you can drive the car right after it stops charging...

I have my 2013's charge timer set to charge to 100% every Sunday morning, because I know it will be cooler overnight and that my wife will be going to church right after the charging timer ends (so no worries about it sitting idle with a high SOC). Most other nights, I charge to 80%, but I have the override set to charge to 100% for those times when I public charge and want the extra boost.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
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DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12978
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Thu May 24, 2018 3:17 pm

alozzy wrote:Why charge to 100% all the time, gambling that it does no harm, if you don't need the range on a daily basis? Sure, occasional charges to 100% make sense, but those don't have to be very frequent and one can choose to do those when it's not hot out and when you know you can drive the car right after it stops charging...

I have my 2013's charge timer set to charge to 100% every Sunday morning, because I know it will be cooler overnight and that my wife will be going to church right after the charging timer ends (so no worries about it sitting idle with a high SOC). Most other nights, I charge to 80%, but I have the override set to charge to 100% for those times when I public charge and want the extra boost.


This may seem strange but I know people who charge to 100% every 3 to 5 days because its easier than setting a timer to charge 2 hours a day...
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 5775 miles, 488 GIDs, 38 kwh 113.37 Ahr available, SOH 98.21, Hx 115.75
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tuningin
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:50 pm
Delivery Date: 19 Jan 2018
Location: Southern California

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Thu May 24, 2018 4:16 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
alozzy wrote:Why charge to 100% all the time, gambling that it does no harm, if you don't need the range on a daily basis? Sure, occasional charges to 100% make sense, but those don't have to be very frequent and one can choose to do those when it's not hot out and when you know you can drive the car right after it stops charging...

I have my 2013's charge timer set to charge to 100% every Sunday morning, because I know it will be cooler overnight and that my wife will be going to church right after the charging timer ends (so no worries about it sitting idle with a high SOC). Most other nights, I charge to 80%, but I have the override set to charge to 100% for those times when I public charge and want the extra boost.


This may seem strange but I know people who charge to 100% every 3 to 5 days because its easier than setting a timer to charge 2 hours a day...


I use about 55% of the range per day/ per charge. There is a reason I'm already at 4500 miles after a few months of ownership ;)

I charge at work so you can imagine that it becomes a bit bothersome to try to set a timer and then step out of meetings and across our campus. We do use the Juicebox that where I can log in and set a maximum charge amount by kwh, but for some reason after a couple of hours, it begins charging again if I don't unplug.
Daily Commuter:
2018 Nissan Leaf SV w/Tech

Other Car:
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR

NavyCuda
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:14 pm
Delivery Date: 24 Jun 2015
Leaf Number: 329051

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Thu May 24, 2018 4:34 pm

alozzy wrote:Why charge to 100% all the time, gambling that it does no harm, if you don't need the range on a daily basis? Sure, occasional charges to 100% make sense, but those don't have to be very frequent and one can choose to do those when it's not hot out and when you know you can drive the car right after it stops charging...

I have my 2013's charge timer set to charge to 100% every Sunday morning, because I know it will be cooler overnight and that my wife will be going to church right after the charging timer ends (so no worries about it sitting idle with a high SOC). Most other nights, I charge to 80%, but I have the override set to charge to 100% for those times when I public charge and want the extra boost.


Not charging to 100% frequently will accelerate degradation. That’s a fact of the nature of batteries in general. 98,000+ km reinforces the fact that the battery likes being balanced on a regular basis. When my Leaf was brand new it would take ~3.5 hours to fully charge with balancing from 40-50%. After about 6 months it dropped to ~2.5 hours. That was getting fully charged twice a day.

alozzy
Posts: 986
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Thu May 24, 2018 9:23 pm

Each person's use case is a little different, there isn't really a norm. So all I'm really saying is limit the frequency of 100% charges and try not to charge to 100% SOC when it's hot out - both of which will go a long way to keeping the LEAF's battery pack healthy. Of course there will be times when neither is possible but on the flip side, sticking to a routine of 100% SOC charge all the time is almost a guarantee that your battery will suffer from premature degradation.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

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