DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13075
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Thu May 31, 2018 9:06 am

Foschas wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:Why are 2015ers chiming in with VERY VERY bad advice? (Maybe a glance at the thread title is in order) Charging to 100% is bad for ALL Lithium chemistries. It has nothing to do with heat. Its all about voltage and the breakdown that occurs with sustaining the voltage on the edge for extended periods of time.

So you got a 2015 W/O LEAF Spy and the only thing you can claim is you haven't lost a bar AKA at least 15+% capacity? That is hardly "good" in any way. I have NEVER lost a bar over 4 different versions of the LEAF driving MUCH farther and guess what? Other than my much maligned 2016 S 30, the packs have exhibited unacceptably high degradation which is why I don't have them anymore. The 2018 is still being evaluated but has the likely potential of having 2015 like degradation and still be acceptable simply because it has a LOT TO LOSE. Your 2015's don't.


Lol no advice, just my situation. I’m a just drive it kind of guy. Take care of it and it takes care of me. When it doesn’t we’ll break up and I’ll find another valiant steed. Really have fun, change your oil regularly and charge to what ever let’s you sleep at night.

P.s. how do you limit a base model to stop charging at a certain percentage?


If you had more details I could give you a more detailed answer. Use the charge timer
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 8743 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 111.39 Ahr , SOH 96.49, Hx 114.98
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SageBrush
Posts: 2594
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Thu May 31, 2018 12:04 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
They should have aimed slightly lower in my opinion but They did the testing and that's what Nissan decided on.


I know you aren't expressing faith in Nissan's battery testing, but just for the newbies; don't put faith in Nissan's battery testing!

It isn't where you charge, actually: it's how hot the weather is when you charge, wherever you are.

And how long the battery cooks at a high temperature and high SoC combined.

I agree with John: as a matter of fleet longevity routine charging up to 90% instead of 94% would have been smart.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

tuningin
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:50 pm
Delivery Date: 19 Jan 2018
Location: Southern California

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:10 pm

Just an update.

Hmmmm, maybe I have a defective battery but now I’m down 10% at 9000 miles. It shows up in Leaf Spy as 90% SOH and based the fact that it takes less kWh to go from 50% to 100%.
Daily Commuter:
2018 Nissan Leaf SV w/Tech

Other Car:
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9062
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:33 pm

tuningin wrote:Just an update.

Hmmmm, maybe I have a defective battery but now I’m down 10% at 9000 miles. It shows up in Leaf Spy as 90% SOH and based the fact that it takes less kWh to go from 50% to 100%.


Not good. I'm late for my July test but I'm waiting for a chance to charge to 100% and EQ the pack first. I haven't done that more than once since I got the car.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13075
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:55 am

tuningin wrote:Just an update.

Hmmmm, maybe I have a defective battery but now I’m down 10% at 9000 miles. It shows up in Leaf Spy as 90% SOH and based the fact that it takes less kWh to go from 50% to 100%.


Wow! You are sadly well on your way to a new pack!
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 8743 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 111.39 Ahr , SOH 96.49, Hx 114.98
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13075
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:33 am

Degradation is worse on the 2018 packs at least for me. What is worse is that the old methods of preserving the pack simply aren't working.

The pack takes longer to cool which is apparently degrading it.

FYI; Stored car in open lot from July 6th to July 17th at 42% SOC and still lost 1% capacity. Yes it was hot. Temps in the mid 90's which would make the parking lot all that much hotter. So it looks like the new LEAF can't be stored outside in the heat at "any" SOC?

As always, still gathering data.

http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2018/07 ... -leaf.html
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 8743 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 111.39 Ahr , SOH 96.49, Hx 114.98
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9062
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:32 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:Degradation is worse on the 2018 packs at least for me. What is worse is that the old methods of preserving the pack simply aren't working.

The pack takes longer to cool which is apparently degrading it.

FYI; Stored car in open lot from July 6th to July 17th at 42% SOC and still lost 1% capacity. Yes it was hot. Temps in the mid 90's which would make the parking lot all that much hotter. So it looks like the new LEAF can't be stored outside in the heat at "any" SOC?

As always, still gathering data.

http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2018/07 ... -leaf.html


I've been too depressed to post the info, but despite a cooled garage that stops the pack from EVER getting hot, and not charging to 100% once yet, my car lost slightly over 1% capacity over about 5 weeks. Yours isn't degrading because it got hot - it's degrading because these "Lettuce Packs" appear to have the same calendar degradation issue as the original Canary packs...
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Reddy
Posts: 1510
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:09 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:19 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:Degradation is worse on the 2018 packs at least for me. What is worse is that the old methods of preserving the pack simply aren't working.

The pack takes longer to cool which is apparently degrading it.

FYI; Stored car in open lot from July 6th to July 17th at 42% SOC and still lost 1% capacity. Yes it was hot. Temps in the mid 90's which would make the parking lot all that much hotter. So it looks like the new LEAF can't be stored outside in the heat at "any" SOC?

As always, still gathering data.

http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2018/07 ... -leaf.html


I've been too depressed to post the info, but despite a cooled garage that stops the pack from EVER getting hot, and not charging to 100% once yet, my car lost slightly over 1% capacity over about 5 weeks. Yours isn't degrading because it got hot - it's degrading because these "Lettuce Packs" appear to have the same calendar degradation issue as the original Canary packs...
Welcome back to 2011. :twisted: EDIT: Lettuce is a perfect description! A friend tried to "quick" charge a 2018 yesterday at 50% SOC and only got 24 KW (1st QC). It was the new Kennewick DCQC that I know will put 48 KW into my 2011 pack. Ambient temp was about 95 F (normal summer temps for here).
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 45.80 AHr; 45,000 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

SageBrush
Posts: 2594
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:47 pm

Dave and Leftie,
Aren't you guys over reacting ? Nissan is not known for accurate BMS data, so a 1% change is just noise for now. 5% in under a year, confirmed by a recharging session would be reason to be depressed. Admittedly I suspect (expect, really) these packs will age poorly but that is a guess and I don't view your data as confirmatory in any way.

Leftie, your LEAF is leased, right ? Why are you wasting energy and money cooling the garage when the car stops being your problem in under 3 years ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13075
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:37 pm

SageBrush wrote:Dave and Leftie,
Aren't you guys over reacting ? Nissan is not known for accurate BMS data, so a 1% change is just noise for now. 5% in under a year, confirmed by a recharging session would be reason to be depressed. Admittedly I suspect (expect, really) these packs will age poorly but that is a guess and I don't view your data as confirmatory in any way.

Leftie, your LEAF is leased, right ? Why are you wasting energy and money cooling the garage when the car stops being your problem in under 3 years ?


Overreacting? Not I. I am just reporting facts for anyone who cares to know. I am still VERY pleased with my choice. Will I be in 2 years? We shall see but I definitely won't be using those per minute chargers much :lol:

Realize that if I dropped to 80% capacity, the car will still do well more than enough to get me by. I don't have the extreme commuting needs any more so all my road trips are pretty much for pleasure only nowadays!

Besides, if my pack is gonna die, it won't take long. I just posted a blog on my latest 700 mile 13 QC trip. Best part is I only saw 10 TBs after QC #13! ;)
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 8743 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 111.39 Ahr , SOH 96.49, Hx 114.98
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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