JonathanT
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 2:54 pm
Delivery Date: 24 Oct 2018
Location: Central NJ

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:06 pm

kosjet wrote:So I think all this negativity about the 2018 Leaf is a bit unfair. Let's keep things in perspective here.
  • The battery warrany is 8 years/100k miles @ lets say 60% capacity
  • That means the worst case scenario is that you will have 91 miles of EPA range at the 8 year or 100k mile mark
It may not work for everyone, but there are a wide range of people that this would work for just fine. You have to ask yourself a few questions:
  • Is your average daily commute/round trip less than 60 miles a day?
  • How frequency do you take road trips that are longer than 120 miles (this assumes 1 QC trips with charging at destination)
  • Do you live in a moderate climate and/or have access to garage parking?
  • Do you have a 2nd car?
The question you have to ask yourself is how many days a year does this profile satisfy you? For me the answer is 98% which means that about 7 days a year we will need to take my wife's car instead of mine. Keep in mind that this is the worst case scenario. Considering that the Leaf is about $5000 cheaper than the Bolt for the same trim level and includes tech that is not available in the Bolt, I think the Leaf is quite the value.

Does it work for everyone? No.
Could it work for a good percentage of people? I believe so.

I agree completely. My 2013 Leaf is down to 85% capacity, but I have neither much need need nor the desire to drive long distances. If we have to go somewhere more than 30 miles away, we take my wife's Prius, which always reminds me that the Leaf is quite a sprightly car by comparison. So when the rebates come back and I get a 40 kWh 2019 Leaf with its driver-assist technology, I'm certainly not going to complain about its capacity.
2013 SV, then 2019 SL powered by 9.9 kW solar PV array in NJ

SageBrush
Posts: 2839
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:28 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:Yet another "Nissan's screwup worked out fine for ME, so stop whining about YOUR Leaf problems!" argument. Very helpful.

Yup, but Joe adds spin to his story.
He "forgot" to mention that he bought the end of lease car at a dumpster price with a new battery placed under warranty.

Worked out ok for him but the people who bought the car upfront at anywhere near msrp and found soon after 5 years that the battery was degraded 35% and no warranty was in effect (exactly as Nissan planned) tend to view the LEAF and Nissan a lot less favorably. Similarly, the people who bought the LEAF at anywhere near msrp and then took a bath in depreciation due to battery degradation far in excess of Nissan's claims when they sold the car tend to feel screwed by Nissan.

Nissan erring in their assessment of battery degradation is human; their response to their error is awful. A reasonable automaker would have extended the degradation warranty: Nissan told people to take a hike if the warranty had expired by a day, and then added insult to injury to their early adopters by increasing the already expensive replacement battery.

This is not 'ancient history,' this is the reality today for the majority of 24 kWh LEAFs on the road.

Like Joe, I bought a heavily discounted LEAF and I am pretty confident I will obtain good value from the car for my car use profile. That in no way blinds me to the obvious: my good fortune was at somebody else's expense, and that was due to Corporate Nissan acting in a customer hostile manner I never expected to see outside of GM.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
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2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

kosjet
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:05 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Sep 2018
Leaf Number: 317089
Location: Delaware

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:23 pm

I'm sure this has been posted many times before but thought I'd repost it here so we can start gathering real world data on the 2018s. I was actually going to start a google doc to crowd source battery degradation data, but looks like this already exists!

https://survey.pluginamerica.org/leaf/survey.php
2018 Leaf SL w/Tech delivered 9/29/2018

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9575
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:45 pm

Looks like a good survey. I tried to do one here, but after trying to accommodate the million or so requests for additions, it ended up too long, and few bothered to fill it in properly. Never again!
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

kosjet
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:05 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Sep 2018
Leaf Number: 317089
Location: Delaware

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:57 am

LeftieBiker wrote:Looks like a good survey. I tried to do one here, but after trying to accommodate the million or so requests for additions, it ended up too long, and few bothered to fill it in properly. Never again!


Yea I can totally see that! :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm glad I found this existing survey. It seems to have a good balance of detail if you want it, but the core is there is you just want the nitty gritty. I'd be curious to see the 2018 trend line in a couple years. Or even if there are high mileage 2018s out there.
2018 Leaf SL w/Tech delivered 9/29/2018

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13267
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:12 am

kosjet wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:Looks like a good survey. I tried to do one here, but after trying to accommodate the million or so requests for additions, it ended up too long, and few bothered to fill it in properly. Never again!


Yea I can totally see that! :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm glad I found this existing survey. It seems to have a good balance of detail if you want it, but the core is there is you just want the nitty gritty. I'd be curious to see the 2018 trend line in a couple years. Or even if there are high mileage 2018s out there.


high mileage trend lines only confuses the issue. Unless you to are in that high mileage group, the data will be meaningless.

Here is a high mileage stat; Jennifer lives in Battery Hell (AKA; Phoenix) is at 94½% after 30,000....well probably near 35,000 miles. She lives in apt complex with UNCOVERED PARKING to boot... :shock:

We also have a dozen who are at 95% after 7000 to 13,000 miles all living in Northern tier states.

Have fun charting that.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

kosjet
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:05 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Sep 2018
Leaf Number: 317089
Location: Delaware

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:11 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:high mileage trend lines only confuses the issue. Unless you to are in that high mileage group, the data will be meaningless.

Here is a high mileage stat; Jennifer lives in Battery Hell (AKA; Phoenix) is at 94½% after 30,000....well probably near 35,000 miles. She lives in apt complex with UNCOVERED PARKING to boot... :shock:

We also have a dozen who are at 95% after 7000 to 13,000 miles all living in Northern tier states.

Have fun charting that.


But that's the beauty of the crowd. With enough data points, the individual variance is smoothed out by the general trend. You won't be able to predict specific individual performance, but understand what the general likelihood will be.
2018 Leaf SL w/Tech delivered 9/29/2018

spicythots
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:11 pm
Delivery Date: 05 Jul 2018

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:13 am

kosjet wrote:So I think all this negativity about the 2018 Leaf is a bit unfair. Let's keep things in perspective here.
  • The battery warrany is 8 years/100k miles @ lets say 60% capacity
  • That means the worst case scenario is that you will have 91 miles of EPA range at the 8 year or 100k mile mark
It may not work for everyone, but there are a wide range of people that this would work for just fine. You have to ask yourself a few questions:


Your dealership should have provided a warranty information booklet that lays out the specifics. During the sale the saleswoman tried to assuage my TMS/degradation fears with the 100,000 mile warranty, but come to find out this is for complete battery failure. There is a separate warranty for battery capacity, which is 5 years/60k miles for SOH less than 70%. I can post a picture this evening if you're unable to find yours.

Perhaps the bigger kick below the belt is Nissan's remedy for batteries meeting the capacity loss warranty: they will no longer replace batteries, rather they repair them to bring their capacity back up to 70%. This was confirmed by my dealership after I camped out in their lobby until they called Nissan to answer my questions. Maybe you all knew that; I'm still new here and have yet to read all the pertinent threads.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13267
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:49 am

spicythots wrote:
Your dealership should have provided a warranty information booklet that lays out the specifics. During the sale the saleswoman tried to assuage my TMS/degradation fears with the 100,000 mile warranty, but come to find out this is for complete battery failure. There is a separate warranty for battery capacity, which is 5 years/60k miles for SOH less than 70%. I can post a picture this evening if you're unable to find yours.

Perhaps the bigger kick below the belt is Nissan's remedy for batteries meeting the capacity loss warranty: they will no longer replace batteries, rather they repair them to bring their capacity back up to 70%. This was confirmed by my dealership after I camped out in their lobby until they called Nissan to answer my questions. Maybe you all knew that; I'm still new here and have yet to read all the pertinent threads.



Prove it
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

WetEV
Posts: 2346
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:49 am

spicythots wrote:Perhaps the bigger kick below the belt is Nissan's remedy for batteries meeting the capacity loss warranty: they will no longer replace batteries, rather they repair them to bring their capacity back up to 70%. This was confirmed by my dealership after I camped out in their lobby until they called Nissan to answer my questions.


That' s all the warranty claims to do.

However, there good practical reasons why that is unlikely, and no reported cases of anything other than replacement with a new battery.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

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