SageBrush
Posts: 2921
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:48 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
SageBrush wrote:Dave and Leftie,
Aren't you guys over reacting ? Nissan is not known for accurate BMS data, so a 1% change is just noise for now. 5% in under a year, confirmed by a recharging session would be reason to be depressed. Admittedly I suspect (expect, really) these packs will age poorly but that is a guess and I don't view your data as confirmatory in any way.

Leftie, your LEAF is leased, right ? Why are you wasting energy and money cooling the garage when the car stops being your problem in under 3 years ?


Overreacting? Not I.

Your post, your conclusions:
Degradation is worse on the 2018 packs at least for me. What is worse is that the old methods of preserving the pack simply aren't working.

The pack takes longer to cool which is apparently degrading it.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13336
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:41 pm

SageBrush wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
SageBrush wrote:Dave and Leftie,
Aren't you guys over reacting ? Nissan is not known for accurate BMS data, so a 1% change is just noise for now. 5% in under a year, confirmed by a recharging session would be reason to be depressed. Admittedly I suspect (expect, really) these packs will age poorly but that is a guess and I don't view your data as confirmatory in any way.

Leftie, your LEAF is leased, right ? Why are you wasting energy and money cooling the garage when the car stops being your problem in under 3 years ?


Overreacting? Not I.

Your post, your conclusions:
Degradation is worse on the 2018 packs at least for me. What is worse is that the old methods of preserving the pack simply aren't working.

The pack takes longer to cool which is apparently degrading it.


Realize I had NO degradation on my 2016. 180 QCs, nearly 30,000 miles. I drove 116. 2 miles on a single charge in Jan a week before she was totaled. With that metric; nearly EVERYTHING is worse...
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9834
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:38 pm

SageBrush wrote:Dave and Leftie,
Aren't you guys over reacting ? Nissan is not known for accurate BMS data, so a 1% change is just noise for now. 5% in under a year, confirmed by a recharging session would be reason to be depressed. Admittedly I suspect (expect, really) these packs will age poorly but that is a guess and I don't view your data as confirmatory in any way.

Leftie, your LEAF is leased, right ? Why are you wasting energy and money cooling the garage when the car stops being your problem in under 3 years ?


The SOH doesn't float around on these packs as with the later 24kwh ones - it just drops, and drops, and drops some more. It drops less in Winter, and more in Summer. As for my lease: I can get household funds to buy the car when the lease ends, at no personal cost to me. I'm not going to do that if this continues. If it does, then I'll just cool the garage enough to make it tolerable to work on my bikes. Sure I can lease a hopefully better Leaf in three years - after about 18 months of substantially reduced range during this lease.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13336
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:40 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
SageBrush wrote:Dave and Leftie,
Aren't you guys over reacting ? Nissan is not known for accurate BMS data, so a 1% change is just noise for now. 5% in under a year, confirmed by a recharging session would be reason to be depressed. Admittedly I suspect (expect, really) these packs will age poorly but that is a guess and I don't view your data as confirmatory in any way.

Leftie, your LEAF is leased, right ? Why are you wasting energy and money cooling the garage when the car stops being your problem in under 3 years ?


The SOH doesn't float around on these packs as with the later 24kwh ones - it just drops, and drops, and drops some more. It drops less in Winter, and more in Summer. As for my lease: I can get household funds to buy the car when the lease ends, at no personal cost to me. I'm not going to do that if this continues. If it does, then I'll just cool the garage enough to make it tolerable to work on my bikes. Sure I can lease a hopefully better Leaf in three years - after about 18 months of substantially reduced range during this lease.


Well, not knowing your needs, even if my degradation is 10% a year, at the end of the lease, it will still be quite the drivable car having a range remaining that would be about where my 2016 was
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9834
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:32 pm

Well, not knowing your needs, even if my degradation is 10% a year, at the end of the lease, it will still be quite the drivable car having a range remaining that would be about where my 2016 was



That is a good argument for leasing, but a poor one for buying off-lease. Three years after buying it you'd have 60% less range.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13336
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:39 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Well, not knowing your needs, even if my degradation is 10% a year, at the end of the lease, it will still be quite the drivable car having a range remaining that would be about where my 2016 was



That is a good argument for leasing, but a poor one for buying off-lease. Three years after buying it you'd have 60% less range.


Well... no and no...

First off, I was addressing the lack of "suffering the last 18 months" of my lease. 2nd off; you would be no worse than 35 % of your range since you would be soon getting a brand new battery.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tuningin
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:50 pm
Delivery Date: 19 Jan 2018
Location: Southern California

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:07 pm

I agree. SOH never went back up. Once it was gone, it was gone.

Makes me wonder if AESC lost their buyer because they realized that that company is not making good batteries.
Daily Commuter:
2018 Nissan Leaf SV w/Tech

Other Car:
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9834
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:08 pm

Dave: I'm not sure what exactly you are responding to. I didn't write anything about "suffering." I leased a 150+ mile range car that will turn into a roughly 100 mile range car well before the lease ends, making it unattractive to buy. So many of you think that getting a free battery after 5 years is great stuff. I would prefer to not have the battery degrading steadily and quickly, and losing range for those 5 years, and then start doing it again again right after the warranty replacement was installed. When this lease ends I hope to hell that someone else makes an EV with the options I want and need.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

tuningin
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:50 pm
Delivery Date: 19 Jan 2018
Location: Southern California

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:14 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
tuningin wrote:Just an update.

Hmmmm, maybe I have a defective battery but now I’m down 10% at 9000 miles. It shows up in Leaf Spy as 90% SOH and based the fact that it takes less kWh to go from 50% to 100%.


Wow! You are sadly well on your way to a new pack!


Well there is nothing that states that we are going to get new packs. In fact they are clear that their only contractual responsibility is to repair/replace what is necessary to get the SOH back above 30%.

Even if I get new packs, at this rate I will be getting two new packs by the end of the lease.
Daily Commuter:
2018 Nissan Leaf SV w/Tech

Other Car:
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13336
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:00 am

tuningin wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
tuningin wrote:Just an update.

Hmmmm, maybe I have a defective battery but now I’m down 10% at 9000 miles. It shows up in Leaf Spy as 90% SOH and based the fact that it takes less kWh to go from 50% to 100%.


Wow! You are sadly well on your way to a new pack!


Well there is nothing that states that we are going to get new packs. In fact they are clear that their only contractual responsibility is to repair/replace what is necessary to get the SOH back above 30%.

Even if I get new packs, at this rate I will be getting two new packs by the end of the lease.

LOL!!!! OMG, after all this time you are still on that page???
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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