DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13085
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:06 am

LeftieBiker wrote:Dave: I'm not sure what exactly you are responding to. I didn't write anything about "suffering." I leased a 150+ mile range car that will turn into a roughly 100 mile range car well before the lease ends, making it unattractive to buy. So many of you think that getting a free battery after 5 years is great stuff. I would prefer to not have the battery degrading steadily and quickly, and losing range for those 5 years, and then start doing it again again right after the warranty replacement was installed. When this lease ends I hope to hell that someone else makes an EV with the options I want and need.


I get ya and if you need that range, you will have a different perspective in 3 years. For me? Well, I don't know. It all depends. Right now, the network is exploding here. EA, WCGH, Central WA, EVGO are all on the move. I get that public charging is not viable for all but since my job change, my finances are a lot different along with my transpo needs.

I simply don't have to drive 50-200 miles ONE way for work anymore. Another thing is tech. We can think we will go thru 2 or 3 battery replacements in the next 100,000 miles but the reality is the replacement pack is likely to be much better than the OEM pack. Why do I say this? Cause there is only a small bit of evidence of this so far. Well in tech; advancement and improvements almost always happens exponentially so it wasn't far fetched to see only a little improvement in Lizard battery V 1.0. But expect that improvement to grow with the tech. In 5 years or whatever, I might get a pack that outlasts me.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 8743 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 111.39 Ahr , SOH 96.49, Hx 114.98
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SageBrush
Posts: 2601
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:13 pm

tuningin wrote:Well there is nothing that states that we are going to get new packs. In fact they are clear that their only contractual responsibility is to repair/replace what is necessary to get the SOH back above 30%..

Above 8 bars, whatever that means.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9076
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:07 pm

We can think we will go thru 2 or 3 battery replacements in the next 100,000 miles but the reality is the replacement pack is likely to be much better than the OEM pack. Why do I say this? Cause there is only a small bit of evidence of this so far.


As already implied above, Nissan can replace our packs with "refurbished" 9 bar packs, and they have already built the plant to make them. I think your optimism is...premature.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

WetEV
Posts: 2198
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:02 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
We can think we will go thru 2 or 3 battery replacements in the next 100,000 miles but the reality is the replacement pack is likely to be much better than the OEM pack. Why do I say this? Cause there is only a small bit of evidence of this so far.


As already implied above, Nissan can replace our packs with "refurbished" 9 bar packs, and they have already built the plant to make them. I think your optimism is...premature.


Economics suggests you are being too pessimistic.

It costs money to swap a pack. If Nissan is really going to pay for 2 or 3 replacements they will not be happy. It is in Nissan's interest to improve the pack enough so they only rarely need to replace a pack once. Sure, might be more common in Dubai or similar.

If Nissan wanted to replace 4 bar lost packs with a 3 bar packs, they would be replacing a lot more packs, perhaps more than 4 times as many. The dealers would love it, as they bill Nissan for every warranty job they do.

And where is the source for all of those 3 bar lost packs? Where would Nissan get all of the 9 bar loser packs from?? I don't see where they could all come from... Do you?
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

kubel
Posts: 1608
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:38 am
Leaf Number: 19628
Location: Southeast Michigan

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:34 am

The wording is designed to give them wiggle room to do a more cost-effective weakest cell replacement in order to restore capacity to a minimum level. In practice, they don't do this and just replace it with a brand new pack. But the warranty as worded gives them that option.

WetEV wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:
We can think we will go thru 2 or 3 battery replacements in the next 100,000 miles but the reality is the replacement pack is likely to be much better than the OEM pack. Why do I say this? Cause there is only a small bit of evidence of this so far.


As already implied above, Nissan can replace our packs with "refurbished" 9 bar packs, and they have already built the plant to make them. I think your optimism is...premature.


Economics suggests you are being too pessimistic.

It costs money to swap a pack. If Nissan is really going to pay for 2 or 3 replacements they will not be happy. It is in Nissan's interest to improve the pack enough so they only rarely need to replace a pack once. Sure, might be more common in Dubai or similar.

If Nissan wanted to replace 4 bar lost packs with a 3 bar packs, they would be replacing a lot more packs, perhaps more than 4 times as many. The dealers would love it, as they bill Nissan for every warranty job they do.

And where is the source for all of those 3 bar lost packs? Where would Nissan get all of the 9 bar loser packs from?? I don't see where they could all come from... Do you?
2012 Nissan LEAF SV
20% degradation in 42k miles
Leased 5-17-2012, Returned 1-15-2016


2017 Chevy Volt LT
Siren Red Tintcoat
Leased 10-21-2016

SageBrush
Posts: 2601
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:41 am

WetEV wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:
We can think we will go thru 2 or 3 battery replacements in the next 100,000 miles but the reality is the replacement pack is likely to be much better than the OEM pack. Why do I say this? Cause there is only a small bit of evidence of this so far.


As already implied above, Nissan can replace our packs with "refurbished" 9 bar packs, and they have already built the plant to make them. I think your optimism is...premature.


Economics suggests you are being too pessimistic.

It costs money to swap a pack. If Nissan is really going to pay for 2 or 3 replacements they will not be happy. It is in Nissan's interest to improve the pack enough so they only rarely need to replace a pack once. Sure, might be more common in Dubai or similar.

If Nissan wanted to replace 4 bar lost packs with a 3 bar packs, they would be replacing a lot more packs, perhaps more than 4 times as many. The dealers would love it, as they bill Nissan for every warranty job they do.

And where is the source for all of those 3 bar lost packs? Where would Nissan get all of the 9 bar loser packs from?? I don't see where they could all come from... Do you?

Imagine a LEAF with 6 - 12 months left on the battery degradation warranty, and Nissan with a choice whether to swap in a new pack or a 10 bar pack. What what you do, as the economics advisor to Nissan ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

WetEV
Posts: 2198
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:18 pm

SageBrush wrote:Imagine a LEAF with 6 - 12 months left on the battery degradation warranty, and Nissan with a choice whether to swap in a new pack or a 10 bar pack. What what you do, as the economics advisor to Nissan ?


Not to say it will not happen. It can't be common, as there isn't a large supply of 10 bar packs, as packs usually don't outlast the cars. Most pack replacements will need to be new.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

SageBrush
Posts: 2601
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:38 pm

WetEV wrote:
SageBrush wrote:Imagine a LEAF with 6 - 12 months left on the battery degradation warranty, and Nissan with a choice whether to swap in a new pack or a 10 bar pack. What what you do, as the economics advisor to Nissan ?


Not to say it will not happen. It can't be common, as there isn't a large supply of 10 bar packs, as packs usually don't outlast the cars. Most pack replacements will need to be new.

The refurbs are made by picking out the "good" cells from failed packs.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

oleviking
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:35 am
Delivery Date: 21 Oct 2016
Leaf Number: 301969
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:49 pm

I just finished going through the battery blues with a 2016 SV, lost 2 bars in 2017 at 7,500 miles, finally in April 2018 lost the last of my 4 bars and was given a new battery. This was ahead of the software update, which is lucky, because of everything I read, I would NOT have been given a new battery. The real problem with this loss of bars is that you don't have the vehicle you bargained for. I had only about 8 months of having full range, and then I had to start making compromises as to where I would drive. Not good. The good thing is, in October 2019 the lease is up. I'll have to look long and hard at where my second battery is to decide if I purchase this car, lease a 2019 LEAF or lease a Bolt.

SageBrush
Posts: 2601
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Yikes, degradation is looking bad (2018 Leaf)

Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:55 pm

oleviking wrote:I just finished going through the battery blues with a 2016 SV, lost 2 bars in 2017 at 7,500 miles, finally in April 2018 lost the last of my 4 bars and was given a new battery. This was ahead of the software update, which is lucky, because of everything I read, I would NOT have been given a new battery. The real problem with this loss of bars is that you don't have the vehicle you bargained for. I had only about 8 months of having full range, and then I had to start making compromises as to where I would drive. Not good. The good thing is, in October 2019 the lease is up. I'll have to look long and hard at where my second battery is to decide if I purchase this car, lease a 2019 LEAF or lease a Bolt.

Get the update, particularly if you are using the on-board meters and warnings to tell you when the battery is low.
Prior to end of lease, measure actual battery capacity from the VLB warning with a metered charge to full and use LeafSpy to find out what voltage the lowest pair is at VLB. I think that is the best information available for decision making.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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