Newporttom
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50 Amp Line to use supplied 240 cord on 2018?

Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:38 am

Just traded in 2012 for 2018. I have an existing 240 volt line that I used with my 2012 with a modified EVSE. It's either a 20 amp or 30 amp line. Can I use that line (once an electrician modifies the plug), or do I need a 50 amp line?
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EVDRIVER
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Re: 50 Amp Line to use supplied 240 cord on 2018?

Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:08 am

Newporttom wrote:Just traded in 2012 for 2018. I have an existing 240 volt line that I used with my 2012 with a modified EVSE. It's either a 20 amp or 30 amp line. Can I use that line (once an electrician modifies the plug), or do I need a 50 amp line?



50A circuit for a 50A outlet . Thee is no way you can use your existing circuit if it is 30A. Ask a qualified and licensed electrician in your area for your answer and be sure they will certify it will pass inspection. You will get many creative answers here however you should follow your local code not what others may say. You can also email your building department for an answer likely.

Newporttom
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Re: 50 Amp Line to use supplied 240 cord on 2018?

Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:16 am

We have a guy scheduled to come in. JUst wanted to make sure it had to be 50 to fully use the supplied 240 cord for the 2018.
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EVDRIVER
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Re: 50 Amp Line to use supplied 240 cord on 2018?

Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:29 am

The circuit is dictated by the plug on the device. It does not matter if the EVSE is 5A, if it has a 50A plug it needs a 50A circuit. The reason is that someone could come along and plug a device in that outlet that would draw 40A. You may also have additional requirements based on local codes.

wwhitney
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Re: 50 Amp Line to use supplied 240 cord on 2018?

Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:03 am

EVDRIVER wrote:if it has a 50A plug it needs a 50A circuit. The reason is that someone could come along and plug a device in that outlet that would draw 40A.

That may be your reason, but the NEC doesn't require it. As the EVSE included with the Nissan Leaf requires only a 40A circuit, it is acceptable to install a 40A circuit with a 14-50 receptacle.

Cheers, wayne

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Re: 50 Amp Line to use supplied 240 cord on 2018?

Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:56 am

wwhitney wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:if it has a 50A plug it needs a 50A circuit. The reason is that someone could come along and plug a device in that outlet that would draw 40A.

That may be your reason, but the NEC doesn't require it. As the EVSE included with the Nissan Leaf requires only a 40A circuit, it is acceptable to install a 40A circuit with a 14-50 receptacle.

Cheers, wayne



The NEC does not conduct inspections or set local codes that's why the "N" means National not local. There are plenty of people that have failed inspections for this very reason, not my reason. Please show me where the NEC says you will pass a local inspection with that configuration. There are many Tesla and other EV owners that can attest to their electricians rewiring their outlets because of this misconception. Some cities also have very specific (and ridiculous) additional requirements for EV outlets which also include such things like a cut off switch within a certain distance which is also NOT required in the NEC. Confirming this with the local building department makes more sense than saying the "NEC says its ok". To be clear, there are inspectors that require 50A circuits on 14-50 outlets for reasons from "that's how we do it" to "the city requires this on all EVs" or "we no longer make this exception anymore". I have heard all of these reasons personally and there is no point arguing the NEC. This is why I always tell people to check the local code or make the electrician responsible for the permit passing at their cost. FYI- Berkeley is pretty lax on this but they are terrible on other commercial electrical matters because of recent events.

wwhitney
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Re: 50 Amp Line to use supplied 240 cord on 2018?

Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:09 am

That's all fine, but a few points:

1) Our experience in California isn't very useful to the OP in Florida. Many jurisdictions adopt the National Electrical Code as is, but of course it is important to check for local amendments.

2) In California, jurisdictions can only amend the California building codes for "local climatic, geological, or topographical conditions," and those amendments have to be filed with the state. A list of jurisdictions that have done this is available here as a PDF: http://www.bsc.ca.gov/Rulemaking/LocalC ... ances.aspx Are you aware of any jurisdiction that has amended the California Electrical Code to prohibit a 14-50 receptacle on a 40 amp circuit?

3) Misinformed inspectors making up requirements is always a problem.

Cheers, Wayne

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Re: 50 Amp Line to use supplied 240 cord on 2018?

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:23 pm

The important thing the OP needs to tell their electrician is the max sustained load is 7.2KW & the electrician can ensure the correct wire size/gauge & breaker is utilized.

Don't forget that for an extended wire run an upsized wire will be required.

Also the OP or anyone having electrical work done may want to consider having 60 amps or even 80 amps worth of service if paying for a wiring job for future use because the cost of the larger wire & sub-panel is comparatively small when factored into the entire job & would allow for other circuits to be added or a future EV with a potential 10-20KW charge rate as battery tech improves over the next 10-20 years.
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Newporttom
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Re: 50 Amp Line to use supplied 240 cord on 2018?

Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:15 pm

All I know about electricity is not to lick my fingers and stick them in a socket.... But I think I figured out from reading the thread, that the second number on the plug means the amps. So a 14-50 means a 50 amp line.
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Re: 50 Amp Line to use supplied 240 cord on 2018?

Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:37 pm

wwhitney wrote:That's all fine, but a few points:

1) Our experience in California isn't very useful to the OP in Florida. Many jurisdictions adopt the National Electrical Code as is, but of course it is important to check for local amendments.

2) In California, jurisdictions can only amend the California building codes for "local climatic, geological, or topographical conditions," and those amendments have to be filed with the state. A list of jurisdictions that have done this is available here as a PDF: http://www.bsc.ca.gov/Rulemaking/LocalC ... ances.aspx Are you aware of any jurisdiction that has amended the California Electrical Code to prohibit a 14-50 receptacle on a 40 amp circuit?

3) Misinformed inspectors making up requirements is always a problem.

Cheers, Wayne


My point is not if they care changing the code but enforcing a higher requirement. I'm not sure they need to change the code to require a 50A breaker or disconnect. Even if they do many inspectors make the call and you can debate it all you want but that's batter better fought on bigger issues. Why argue an create other issues when changing wire or adding something is usually easy. Most electricians in the SF proper area will only put in 50A circuits regardless, I asked two the other day and both said they will not install a 40A breaker even a the customers request. If the panel supports it and there are not other ramifications it is really foolish not to have the headroom regardless. As an odd example I think there is one city that will not allow any Romex anywhere only flex, talk about old politics. I tired to get a second meter and SF declined me because they were banning them for single family homes thinking it would be used for in in-law unit. Stupid rules all over.

Some cities it's as easy as an outlet permit where some require plans, new smoke and CO detectors, etc. Some cities charge huge permit fees for an EV outlet but if it is a dryer it is completely different, go figure. Municipalities should make it more affordable for a permit to prevent carless DIY jobs not pad permits because the work EV is used. On the flip side many electricians are gouging for this or charging more because of more complicated requirements or site visits. Since CA was an early adopter site I would expect tighter requirements to expand out to other states with EV demand increasing.

Glad I don't live in Fremont:

https://fremont.gov/DocumentCenter/View ... ons?bidId=

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