Changes for the 2019 40kWh Model

I have really tried to look for this info on this site but the search results come back with nothing. Sorry if this is a repeat question.

Has anyone compiled the list of changes between MY18 and MY19 Leaf? I understand the 60/64kWh battery release is still months out but i am sure there are some changes between the two model years. Could folks chime in on what enhancements were made in the MY19?

is there a TMS to cool down or warm up batteries?
Is there a way to stop charging at a certain percentage point? There was a mention of 80% in some threads but i can't tell if that was a wish list item.
Is there a packaging difference in features between MY18 and MY19?

As far as we can tell, there are NO major changes. No TMS, no charge to 80%, no significant sheetmetal changes. Nissan doesn't usually do model refreshes after just one year.

Don't know for sure, but I would venture to guess that the only benefit of a 2019 40 kWh over a 2018 is the "extra" year of battery pack warranty

FWIW, this site says the 2019 has rear door alert as a new feature:

https://www.auto123.com/en/news/2019-nissan-leaf-details-released-us/65115/

Apparently, that's the only change.

I'm curious about this too. My sense is that the answer is no, but I wonder if:

1. Nissan quietly added even just a cheap air-cooling TMS.

and/or

2. Nissan quietly adjusted the DCQC speed so that the 2019 charges at 45 kW during every quick charge, regardless of battery temp, until say 70-80% SOC.

Again, the answer is probably no, but if they did, it would be a qualitatively different car.

Kieran973 said:

I'm curious about this too. My sense is that the answer is no, but I wonder if:

1. Nissan quietly added even just a cheap air-cooling TMS.

and/or

2. Nissan quietly adjusted the DCQC speed so that the 2019 charges at 45 kW during every quick charge, regardless of battery temp, until say 70-80% SOC.
car.

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1. I see you believe in the tooth fairy
2. And suffer warranty losses ? See (1)

alozzy said:

Don't know for sure, but I would venture to guess that the only benefit of a 2019 40 kWh over a 2018 is the "extra" year of battery pack warranty

FWIW, this site says the 2019 has rear door alert as a new feature:

https://www.auto123.com/en/news/2019-nissan-leaf-details-released-us/65115/

Apparently, that's the only change.

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Seems like it given what http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/presskits/us-2019-nissan-leaf-press-kit and http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/channels/us-united-states-nissan/releases/nissan-announces-u-s-pricing-for-2019-leaf say,

For 2019, Nissan LEAF adds standard Rear Door Alert (RDA)6 (late availability). A longer-range version will be available in the future.

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For 2019, LEAF adds standard Rear Door Alert (RDA)5 (late availability), a system that can help remind customers of items that may be forgotten in the rear seat.

Another version of the 2019 LEAF with a higher range will be introduced at a later date.

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For 2019, LEAF adds standard Rear Door Alert (RDA)5 (late availability), a system that can help remind customers of items that may be forgotten in the rear seat.

Click to expand...

Hmm... I seem to remember seeing an ad for this feature, and I recall it warning people not to open a rear door because of approaching traffic. That seems much more useful than the above...

It's useless for me but can be helpful for parents of young children or those who bring along pets.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/nissan-rear-door-alert-aims-to-prevent-child-deaths-in-hot-cars/
http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/releases/first-of-its-kind-rear-door-alert-technology-from-nissan-can-help-remind-drivers-to-check-their-rear-seats
https://globenewswire.com/news-release/2018/07/31/1544458/0/en/Rear-Door-Alert-technology-to-become-standard-on-all-four-door-Nissan-nameplates.html

https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2016/dec/1206-rsr1.html

Children and pets make more sense than "items" in the rear seat. I must have misunderstood the visual in the ad.

SageBrush said:

Kieran973 said:

I'm curious about this too. My sense is that the answer is no, but I wonder if:

1. Nissan quietly added even just a cheap air-cooling TMS.

and/or

2. Nissan quietly adjusted the DCQC speed so that the 2019 charges at 45 kW during every quick charge, regardless of battery temp, until say 70-80% SOC.
car.

Click to expand...

1. I see you believe in the tooth fairy
2. And suffer warranty losses ? See (1)

Click to expand...

1. I see you like to insult people on the internet in the middle of the night. That seems lonely.

2. I'm not a scientist, but if the $30,000 Ioniq, with its simple air-cooling TMS, can fast charge on a 50 kW charger at roughly 45 kW all the way to almost 80% SOC, then you'd think someone at Nissan would at least try to fix the rapidgate issue on the 2019. No?

Ioniq, with its simple air-cooling TMS, can fast charge on a 50 kW charger at roughly 45 kW all the way to almost 80% SOC, then you'd think someone at Nissan would at least try to fix the rapidgate issue on the 2019.

Click to expand...

anyone have info on how soon Ioniq lower QC taper down point as battery ages?
after FW update, my 2016 tapers down QC at about 65% SOC, at 6 temperature bar, SOH 90%, Hx 75%.

I'm no expert on this, but I wasn't aware that there is any connection between QC tapering and battery age. I've always assumed that the SOC at which QC speeds taper is a fixed number, pre-programmed by the manufacturer. My guess as to why your 2016 is now tapering: in lieu of a battery TMS, the 2018 Leaf also tapers at around 65% (it's actually 63%, I believe), so perhaps Nissan is re-programming the 2016 and 2017 Leafs to taper at this same SOC in order to slow down battery degradation?

You may have already seen this, but here are some fast charging speed graphs for various EVs, the Ioniq and Leaf included. Again, I've always assumed these QC speeds to be more or less fixed constants throughout the life of the car:

https://pushevs.com/2018/05/21/fast-charging-curves/

Kieran973 said:

I'm no expert on this, but I wasn't aware that there is any connection between QC tapering and battery age. I've always assumed that the SOC at which QC speeds taper is a fixed number, pre-programmed by the manufacturer.

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It most definitely does at least w/degradation. Some folks here w/degraded '11 or '12 Leafs have reported slow CHAdeMO speeds beside little regen.

Just before I had the battery changed, the QC charge rate started at 85 amps and dropped as the battery charged. It would drop as low as 10-15 amps by 90% charge capacity, slower than an L2 charger. Temps were in the 6-7 bar range so temp wasn't the problem. The problem was the higher internal resistance of the old battery. New battery fixed the problem. As far as I can tell I charge rate is dependent on internal resistance and battery temp, It doesn't appear to be pre-programmed into the LBC at any particular value although the LBC will taper the charge rate as the battery approaches 100%.

Kieran973 said:

I'm no expert on this, but I wasn't aware that there is any connection between QC tapering and battery age. I've always assumed that the SOC at which QC speeds taper is a fixed number, pre-programmed by the manufacturer. My guess as to why your 2016 is now tapering: in lieu of a battery TMS, the 2018 Leaf also tapers at around 65% (it's actually 63%, I believe), so perhaps Nissan is re-programming the 2016 and 2017 Leafs to taper at this same SOC in order to slow down battery degradation?

You may have already seen this, but here are some fast charging speed graphs for various EVs, the Ioniq and Leaf included. Again, I've always assumed these QC speeds to be more or less fixed constants throughout the life of the car:

https://pushevs.com/2018/05/21/fast-charging-curves/

Click to expand...

Well, you would be the first to report a quicker taper on QC for the 30 kwh pack but have to think its a sign of degradation and any BMS alterations.

If you have LEAF Spy, the charging profile graph shows two lines; one for SOC and the the other for GID%. As degradation increases, these two lines which start basically on top of each other, begins to diverge.

Interesting. Well, I guess the silver lining (if there is any) is that, with a degraded battery, at least it takes fewer kWh of quick charging before you reach your target SOC %, so this may partially counteract the slower QC times brought on by earlier tapering?

Just to bring the conversation back to the 2019 40 kWh Leaf, I'm still puzzled by this model's very existence. Nissan will supposedly close on the sale of AESC in March 2019 to Envision, so some questions I have, in no particular order of importance:

1. Who makes the 40 kWh battery in the 2019 Leaf? Most people would say AESC, but is there definitive proof of this somewhere?

2. If AESC makes the 40 kWh batteries in the 2019 Leaf, then why would Nissan offer a 40 kWh model only to sell off their 40 kWh battery supply in 5 months?

3. After March 2019, who will supply the 40 kWh battery? Will Nissan simply buy these batteries from Envision that they used to get "for free" (or at least, at cost)? Won't this be more expensive for Nissan, at least initially? Alternatively, will LG Chem supply both the Leaf's 40 kWh and 60 kWh batteries? If so, given Hyundai/Kia's problems in securing enough batteries from LG Chem, what's Nissan's plan for guaranteeing they have enough batteries? Or will Nissan simply discontinue the 40 kWh version after March 2019?

4. This question is more about the 60 kWh version of the Leaf: what is the actual reason for Nissan's vague announcement last month that the long-range Leaf will be released at some point "in the future"? Are there delays in producing the 60 kWh version? Or is this vagueness a kind of marketing strategy that Nissan hopes will prod people into buying up the remaining 40 kWh Leafs over the next few months?

I find the uncertainty around these questions annoying. Contrary to a lot of people's view on MNL that deals on the 2018 Leafs will only get better over the next few months, I actually think we're past the point of peak deals on the 2018 models - supply is dwindling, and Nissan USA is offering less cash back than they did last month even though the 2018s are now a month older. So the longer you wait, the real price of the 2018s goes up. Meanwhile there's still no meaningful information on the price and availability of the 60 kWh Leaf. It could come out very soon, in the next few months, as a low-mid $30K car. It could come out in 2020 as a $40+ car. It could not come out at all. And everything in between....

Kieran973 said:

...I'm still puzzled by this model's very existence. Nissan will supposedly close on the sale of AESC in March 2019 to Envision...

3. After March 2019, who will supply the 40 kWh battery? Will Nissan simply buy these batteries from Envision that they used to get "for free" (or at least, at cost)? Won't this be more expensive for Nissan, at least initially? Alternatively, will LG Chem supply both the Leaf's 40 kWh and 60 kWh batteries? If so, given Hyundai/Kia's problems in securing enough batteries from LG Chem, what's Nissan's plan for guaranteeing they have enough batteries? Or will Nissan simply discontinue the 40 kWh version after March 2019? ...

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I suspect the batteries will continue to come from the (former) AESC facilities. As you note, LG already cannot meet demand. On top of which, the LEAF type spinel-based cells are unique in not absolutely requiring active cooling. Production of LiMnO cells would require time and resources at LG, and production of active-cooling EVs require time and resources from Nissan.

LiMnO chemistry is becoming increasingly non-competitive for EVs, so I would expect Nissan is the one who will have to change. And the current worldwide cell shortage makes it difficult for them to realize the benefits. I think this is why they are slow in extricating themselves from AESC