rogersleaf
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 7:50 pm
Delivery Date: 17 May 2014
Leaf Number: 337936
Location: Kent, Ohio

Re: E-Pedal Verses B Mode

Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:43 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
You "mis saw" there is definitely brake lights in E Pedal. For all other drive modes, only the brake pedal actuates the brake lights.


Thanks for clarifying. It was after dark with blowing rain & snow when test driving the leaf. Likely easy to overlook under the conditions. I was underwhelmed by the overall leaf experience. Basically WTH... SV without heated seats/wheel & base model HVAC sucking electricity like no tomorrow trying to keep the car warm. That car didn’t work for my needs in NE Ohio the way it was equipped. Not surprised their 3/18 built leaf is still on the lot. I’ll wait for something better.
2014 SV - Brilliant Silver - returned 1/2017 at end of lease.

NavyCuda
Posts: 136
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:14 pm
Delivery Date: 24 Jun 2015
Leaf Number: 329051

Re: E-Pedal Verses B Mode

Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:45 am

The threshold hold for the brake lights seems to be around 10-15% regen with the e-pedal.

I think that when the brake lights come on, they’re actually being applied. My theory is that the brakes and regen ramp up together, it doesn’t seem to be regen followed by braking.

This is likely to help address the issues with low brake usage. My rotors don’t rust unless the car sits for more than a couple days. With my 2015 there would be times I would get to work with rust still on the rotors. They actually started to pit and the calipers siezed up causing uneven pad wear.

rogersleaf
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 7:50 pm
Delivery Date: 17 May 2014
Leaf Number: 337936
Location: Kent, Ohio

Re: E-Pedal Verses B Mode

Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:20 am

NavyCuda wrote:This is likely to help address the issues with low brake usage. My rotors don’t rust unless the car sits for more than a couple days. With my 2015 there would be times I would get to work with rust still on the rotors. They actually started to pit and the calipers siezed up causing uneven pad wear.

It might seem to some as unnecessary service gouging but my leaf brakes needed disassembled every spring to clean out the road salt & lube the slide hardware. They said it was important on a leaf in the salty north because brake use is so light that the caliper slides have a tendency to sieze if not maintained. And yep, they dinged me for @ $200 each time...
2014 SV - Brilliant Silver - returned 1/2017 at end of lease.

LeftieBiker
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Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: E-Pedal Verses B Mode

Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:25 pm

It might seem to some as unnecessary service gouging but my leaf brakes needed disassembled every spring to clean out the road salt & lube the slide hardware. They said it was important on a leaf in the salty north because brake use is so light that the caliper slides have a tendency to sieze if not maintained. And yep, they dinged me for @ $200 each time...


You are being gouged. I drove a Leaf for 5 years in the Northeast, and there was never a problem with brakes "seizing." I had the fluid changed at 4 years, but no other brake service. The car was always parked outside.
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IssacZachary
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Re: E-Pedal Verses B Mode

Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:32 pm

rogersleaf wrote:Having driven commercial buses for over 30 years, I can’t believe this is DOT legal. Apply any type of engine brake or transmission retarder on a commercial bus will light the brake lights.

Where did you drive commercial buses? I have here in Colorado, both buses and some class A vehicles, and have never seen one that turns the brake lights on from engine braking. In fact, I've seen several that don't turn on the brake lights with the retarder, especially ones with Jake brake or exhaust brake type retarders. However, eddy brake retarders (either in the transmission or on the drive shaft) seem to always activate the brake lights, although I haven't heard of there being a law that the brake lights must come on with use of the retarder. But it would make since that eddy brake retarders activate the brake lights since they are one of the more powerful retarders.

As far as how that affects the brake lights on a downhill grade, we were taught to rely on engine braking mostly, with the help of the Jake brake or exhaust brake if so equipped (no brake lights), and then use the electric retarder and/or service brakes to slow the vehicle for a few seconds down by about 5mph every so often if need be (turning on the brake lights). The result at the brake lights is that for the most part they are off, but come one only once in a while when more braking is actually needed.

This helps to create less confusion since the commercial vehicles I drove didn't have extra deceleration lighting. The problem is that if the brakes did come on with engine braking or the retarder and the retarder were used during the whole descent, then the brake lights would be on continuously. If a herd of dear jumps out in front of the truck or come around a corner and there's a car stopped in the middle of the highway then to anyone behind the truck or bus they won't see any difference in lighting as it comes to a quick halt.
rogersleaf wrote:The transit authority where I currently work installed deceleration lightning on every bus, works off a gyroscope switch and lights an extra set of amber lights when slowing.

That type of lighting would be ideal on any vehicle. BMW apparently did something similar to some of their cars. The ability to distinguish if the vehicle in front of you is calmly slowing down or if it's slamming on its brakes by means of lighting would be very helpful. But the problem is that most vehicles only show one level of brake lighting. And I don't believe there is a set deceleration level that all brake lights should come on that would work in any and every case. Making the only brake lights the car has come on at a certain deceleration threshold may make them come on too often or stay on when not necessary, like when going down a mountain pass, or may make them not come on at all when the should be on.

Maybe some day law makers will make automated brake lights that come on with well designed algorithms and perhaps extra deceleration lighting a must on all new vehicles. But I think they're going to make all cars have automatic braking first before they go that route.
rogersleaf wrote:Not having a similar device on a LEAF is both stupid and dangerous.

That depends on the driver. I personally care about whether my brake lights come on or not. I don't care if that's going to upset my "one pedal" experience. If I feel the people behind me need to be warned that I'm slowing down, I apply pressure to the brake pedal, even if I don't need it for slowing down.

Granted, everything is slowly going away from letting the driver chose to letting the car do it automatically. And the B mode is one that seems to be easily used without consideration for those behind the car. But come on guys! Let's figure out how to drive safely in any vehicle first.
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DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13338
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Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
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Re: E-Pedal Verses B Mode

Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:34 am

golfcart wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
I would hate it too. Thankfully that is not how E Pedal works. It actuates brake lights only when it hits a certain level of deceleration and they remain on until you start to accelerate again.


Yeah but I was talking about brake lights while using B-mode. If that is what you are advocating for with B-mode then I could live with it. I would lose the ability to mess with tailgaters on the highway but I suppose that's a small price to pay for safety. :D


B mode brake lights are completely under your control. They only come on when you hit the brake pedal.
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RelaxedGal
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Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:07 am
Delivery Date: 24 Nov 2018

Re: E-Pedal Verses B Mode

Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:51 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
It might seem to some as unnecessary service gouging but my leaf brakes needed disassembled every spring to clean out the road salt & lube the slide hardware. They said it was important on a leaf in the salty north because brake use is so light that the caliper slides have a tendency to sieze if not maintained. And yep, they dinged me for @ $200 each time...


You are being gouged. I drove a Leaf for 5 years in the Northeast, and there was never a problem with brakes "seizing." I had the fluid changed at 4 years, but no other brake service. The car was always parked outside.


At about the 5 year mark my 2012 Leaf brakes hit exactly the issue rogersleaf's shop warned against. Maybe a difference in salting/road conditions between Ohio, Massachusetts, and New York? My independent shop wouldn't touch it so I had to take it to the dealer. I think brakes/pads/rotors/calipers/fluid and maybe new brake lines(?) was about $700, and I had another couple hundred in other work done for a total just under $1,000. $200 every year is still on the high side vs. one time replace it all. At the 4 year mark another dealer warned me that the grooved rotors were going to cause problems, but I ignored them. It was a certified pre-owned, purchased at 3 years.

As always, your mileage may vary.

My 2 cents on the original topic: I drive in D and brake when I want to brake. :D
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LeftieBiker
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Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: E-Pedal Verses B Mode

Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:26 pm

I'm not saying that it's impossible to drive in conditions that will rust up brakes. I'm saying that this isn't a particular issue with the Leaf, and that simply having the caliper slides lubed every year or two is enough to prevent it. It probably also helps to use a car wash that sprays the underbody, or do it yourself.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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