DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14042
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: RapidGate Fix?

Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:45 am

Not sure I would label it severe. Yesterday, I did a bit under 300 miles leaving home at LBW. To make a relatively valid comparison, I planned the charges (other than the first one) to be at about the same SOC and added the same amount of charge ~ 17.5 Kwh. All stations were Webasto that run 120-124 amps.

First charge batt temps mid 70's. 23 min charge speed before knee; 43-47 KW
2nd charge batts mid 110's 27 mins charge speed, etc. 40 KW
3rd charge batt temps 123 37 mins charge speed 29 KW
4th charge batt temps 129 40 mins charge speed 26 KW


Notice the small difference between first and 2nd charge? This is because 2nd charge was "temperature restricted" so charge started at 116 amps and slowly dropped to 108 amps as SOC rose to maintain the 40 KW charging speed to 66.1% SOC. The first charge with cool batteries charged between 123.219 to 124.108 amps the rate of power rose as normal but knee happened at 58.6%

Note; previous tests confirmed knee is controlled by "starting" batt temps. the colder the pack, the earlier the knee with starting SOC being unaffected as long as it was below the knee.

In a nutshell; Normal charging is current regulated.

Rapidgate charging is power limited.

FYI; since Rapidgate testing was the secondary purpose (I actually did have a reason to go south) of the trip and not "getting there" so key things to remember.

Leaving home with a "fuller" battery would likely have meant I would have had first charge with batt temps at near ideal conditions (mid 80's) which would have pushed knee to max ideal or about 63%. But since I left home with a low SOC, the first charge naturally had to be relatively early in the trip.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SageBrush
Posts: 4600
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: RapidGate Fix?

Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:52 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:45 am
Not sure I would label it severe. Yesterday, I did a bit under 300 miles leaving home at LBW. To make a relatively valid comparison, I planned the charges (other than the first one) to be at about the same SOC and added the same amount of charge ~ 17.5 Kwh. All stations were Webasto that run 120-124 amps.

First charge batt temps mid 70's. 23 min charge speed before knee; 43-47 KW
2nd charge batts mid 110's 27 mins charge speed, etc. 40 KW
3rd charge batt temps 123 37 mins charge speed 29 KW
4th charge batt temps 129 40 mins charge speed 26 KW
.
Speed ?
Ambient Temp ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14042
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: RapidGate Fix?

Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:18 am

SageBrush wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:52 am
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:45 am
Not sure I would label it severe. Yesterday, I did a bit under 300 miles leaving home at LBW. To make a relatively valid comparison, I planned the charges (other than the first one) to be at about the same SOC and added the same amount of charge ~ 17.5 Kwh. All stations were Webasto that run 120-124 amps.

First charge batt temps mid 70's. 23 min charge speed before knee; 43-47 KW
2nd charge batts mid 110's 27 mins charge speed, etc. 40 KW
3rd charge batt temps 123 37 mins charge speed 29 KW
4th charge batt temps 129 40 mins charge speed 26 KW
.
Speed ?
Ambient Temp ?
Bet 1st and 2nd; 75, The rest was 50-60. temps ranged from low 60's around Willapa Bay to low 70's in South Thurston county on way home. What does that have to do with charging speeds? Batt temps were recorded.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SageBrush
Posts: 4600
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: RapidGate Fix?

Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:05 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:18 am
SageBrush wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:52 am

Speed ?
Ambient Temp ?
Bet 1st and 2nd; 75, The rest was 50-60. temps ranged from low 60's around Willapa Bay to low 70's in South Thurston county on way home. What does that have to do with charging speeds? Batt temps were recorded.
.
The driving speed and ambient will affect the battery temperature change during driving, and the subsequent charging speed.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14042
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: RapidGate Fix?

Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:35 am

SageBrush wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:05 am
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:18 am
SageBrush wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:52 am

Speed ?
Ambient Temp ?
Bet 1st and 2nd; 75, The rest was 50-60. temps ranged from low 60's around Willapa Bay to low 70's in South Thurston county on way home. What does that have to do with charging speeds? Batt temps were recorded.
.
The driving speed and ambient will affect the battery temperature change during driving, and the subsequent charging speed.
Batt temps mentioned were the highest at the beginning of each charge.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14042
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: RapidGate Fix?

Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:07 pm

Ok , got the update and tested it. Definitely not as good as the 30 kwh fast charge profile but a significant improvement from stock.



https://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2019/0 ... ified.html
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

cwerdna
Posts: 9582
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: RapidGate Fix?

Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:43 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:07 pm
Ok , got the update and tested it. Definitely not as good as the 30 kwh fast charge profile but a significant improvement from stock.

https://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2019/0 ... ified.html
I only skimmed your post but oh boy... you really got your battery toasty to 130 F.

In comparison, seems like Bolts (for this guy in South Korea) only hit 34 C (93.2 F) peak battery temp when DC FCing: https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/best- ... cfc.32809/ and then get cooled down to about 26 or 27 C (78.8 F to 80.6 F).

I pointed to one Bolter's cooling observations at viewtopic.php?p=564799#p564799.

From some of News Coloumb's videos (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJqgqW ... BZa7JK5KSw), it seems like Bolt can do ~55 kW charges from 0 to ~54% SoC over and over w/o issue.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14042
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: RapidGate Fix?

Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:33 am

cwerdna wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:43 am
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:07 pm
Ok , got the update and tested it. Definitely not as good as the 30 kwh fast charge profile but a significant improvement from stock.

https://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2019/0 ... ified.html
I only skimmed your post but oh boy... you really got your battery toasty to 130 F.

In comparison, seems like Bolts (for this guy in South Korea) only hit 34 C (93.2 F) peak battery temp when DC FCing: https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/best- ... cfc.32809/ and then get cooled down to about 26 or 27 C (78.8 F to 80.6 F).

I pointed to one Bolter's cooling observations at viewtopic.php?p=564799#p564799.

From some of News Coloumb's videos (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJqgqW ... BZa7JK5KSw), it seems like Bolt can do ~55 kW charges from 0 to ~54% SoC over and over w/o issue.
Yeah my 30 kwh would charge full speed to 80% at very high temps repeatedly as well. No harm done to the pack. In fact, the pack was headed towards a type of record for longevity in the face of extreme abuse. I generally only charge to just after the knee in any case. With new stations popping up all over the place, its getting easier and easier to do that. I would do the same with the Bolt if I could but the CCS network is simply not there yet around here.

Brian Henderson has a 2018 Soul that will charge full speed to 75% repeatedly as well. He bolsters cooling by running AC @ 62º, He clocked peak charge rates at Lacey EA @ 67 KW. What is weird is that each EA station seems to have different maximum speeds. There are some locations he never sees more than 55-57 KW
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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