danev
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 2:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Aug 2015

Re: How to sell a 2018 LEAF?

Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:09 pm

Astro: I live in Seattle also. I have sent you a PM with some questions regarding local dealerships.

TexasLeaf
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:37 am
Delivery Date: 17 Mar 2018
Leaf Number: 303111
Location: Texas

Re: How to sell a 2018 LEAF?

Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:47 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
TexasLeaf wrote:
better battery temperature management of the Leaf Plus.

Cwerdna wrote:
???

Source? The battery still is "air cooled" w/passive cooling and inside a sealed box, AFAIK.
I think he means that the larger pack can charge longer at lower temps, so Nissan can restrict charging rates at higher temps...Not my definition, either.
No, that’s not what I meant at all. I read an article on an interview with a Leaf designer. The designer said the Leaf Plus battery is wired differently so that the wiring generates less resistance and only creates a third of the waste heat that the 40 kWh battery generates.

I’m still skeptical. I still haven’t seen any long distance tests of the Leaf Plus with multiple fast charges. I did see one video of test drive in Japan where battery temperature barely increased after a long drive and a subsequent fast charge.
2018 Leaf SL
2015 Ford Fusion Energi Titanium
2007 GMC Envoy XL SLT 4X4

lorenfb
Posts: 2240
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: How to sell a 2018 LEAF?

Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:56 am

TexasLeaf wrote: I’m still skeptical. I still haven’t seen any long distance tests of the Leaf Plus with multiple fast charges. I did see one video of test drive in Japan where battery temperature barely increased after a long drive and a subsequent fast charge.
Temperature data need to be reported using LeafSpy and not guessing from the Leaf's unlabeled temperature graph.
Besides the ambient temperature or temperature rise while charging, the battery's temperature rise is also determined
by battery current to the motor, i.e. the vehicle's speed, the external/internal vehicle load (terrain/wind/passengers),
while driving. The battery temperature rise while driving or charging results from the average driving/charging current
and the length of time driving/charging. Remember, the power loss (battery heat) from driving or charging is equal the
battery current squared times the battery resistance (I^2 X R). Without a battery temperature management system (TMS),
the Leaf 's battery is very venerable to degradation the result of excessive internal heat generation (charging/driving),
notwithstanding the additional problems from high ambient temperatures. The battery temperature rises more quickly
from internal heat generation than it does from a rise in the ambient temperature. As a result, one needs to monitor
the Leaf's battery temperature often, given a lack of TMS.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 4.5K miles, 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

WetEV
Posts: 2986
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: How to sell a 2018 LEAF?

Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:36 pm

lorenfb wrote:As a result, one needs to monitor the Leaf's battery temperature often, given a lack of TMS.
When driving long distances with multiple QC, yes.

Otherwise, no.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

lorenfb
Posts: 2240
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: How to sell a 2018 LEAF?

Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:13 pm

WetEV wrote:
lorenfb wrote:As a result, one needs to monitor the Leaf's battery temperature often, given a lack of TMS.
When driving long distances with multiple QC, yes.

Otherwise, no.
Really? Do you have a 40 kWh or a 60 kWh Leaf and driven either where the motor is heavily loaded? Don't think so!
Naive comments aren't helpful to Leaf owners.

Given the peak motor/battery currents of the 40/60 kWh Leafs, problematic battery heating can occur especially when not in ECO mode:

Image
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 4.5K miles, 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

WetEV
Posts: 2986
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: How to sell a 2018 LEAF?

Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:56 am

lorenfb wrote:
WetEV wrote:
lorenfb wrote:As a result, one needs to monitor the Leaf's battery temperature often, given a lack of TMS.
When driving long distances with multiple QC, yes.

Otherwise, no.
Really? Do you have a 40 kWh or a 60 kWh Leaf and driven either where the motor is heavily loaded? Don't think so!
Naive comments aren't helpful to Leaf owners.

Given the peak motor/battery currents of the 40/60 kWh Leafs, problematic battery heating can occur especially when not in ECO mode:

Image
FUD isn't helpful.

Can occur? Sure.

https://www.nuerburgring.de/en/drives-f ... -days.html

Even Tesla's Model S doesn't have the battery cooling to stand up to a full speed lap.

But if your driving is mostly 0-50kpm, and/or steady cruising at 105kpm, then why would you care?
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

lorenfb
Posts: 2240
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: How to sell a 2018 LEAF?

Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:09 am

WetEV wrote:
lorenfb wrote:
WetEV wrote:
When driving long distances with multiple QC, yes.

Otherwise, no.
Really? Do you have a 40 kWh or a 60 kWh Leaf and driven either where the motor is heavily loaded? Don't think so!
Naive comments aren't helpful to Leaf owners.

Given the peak motor/battery currents of the 40/60 kWh Leafs, problematic battery heating can occur especially when not in ECO mode:

Image
FUD isn't helpful.

Can occur? Sure.

https://www.nuerburgring.de/en/drives-f ... -days.html

Even Tesla's Model S doesn't have the battery cooling to stand up to a full speed lap.

But if your driving is mostly 0-50kpm, and/or steady cruising at 105kpm, then why would you care?
Having a problem relating the posted data (peak battery current & battery resistance) to potentially higher battery temperatures
(Battery Heat column) for the higher capacity batteries/higher motor outputs for the 40/62 kWh Leafs?

Ignoring your unrealistic scenarios, you at least have some understanding, many new to the Leaf don't. Those that own a BEV
with TMS, e.g. Bolt/Tesla, don't need to be as concerned when driving more aggressively and/or with a high ambient temperature.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 4.5K miles, 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

WetEV
Posts: 2986
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: How to sell a 2018 LEAF?

Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:27 am

lorenfb wrote:
WetEV wrote:
lorenfb wrote:
Really? Do you have a 40 kWh or a 60 kWh Leaf and driven either where the motor is heavily loaded? Don't think so!
Naive comments aren't helpful to Leaf owners.

Given the peak motor/battery currents of the 40/60 kWh Leafs, problematic battery heating can occur especially when not in ECO mode:

Image
FUD isn't helpful.

Can occur? Sure.

https://www.nuerburgring.de/en/drives-f ... -days.html

Even Tesla's Model S doesn't have the battery cooling to stand up to a full speed lap.

But if your driving is mostly 0-50kpm, and/or steady cruising at 105kpm, then why would you care?
Having a problem relating the posted data (peak battery current & battery resistance) to potentially higher battery temperatures
(Battery Heat column) for the higher capacity batteries/higher motor outputs for the 40/62 kWh Leafs?

Ignoring your unrealistic scenarios, you at least have some understanding, many new to the Leaf don't. Those that own a BEV
with TMS, e.g. Bolt/Tesla, don't need to be as concerned when driving more aggressively and/or with a high ambient temperature.
Driving at in town speeds, and freeway cruising are "unrealistic scenarios"?

Yet perhaps we agree. If you want a sports car, buy a sports car. If you want to drive a LEAF like it was a sports car, then watching your battery temperature is a prudent thing to do. As it would be prudent to watching battery temperature with a sports car rather than a LEAF. Same thing for long drives with multiple QCs, and with mountain driving.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

lorenfb
Posts: 2240
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: How to sell a 2018 LEAF?

Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:03 pm

WetEV wrote: https://www.nuerburgring.de/en/drives-f ... -days.html

Driving at in town speeds, and freeway cruising are "unrealistic scenarios"?

Yet perhaps we agree. If you want a sports car, buy a sports car. If you want to drive a LEAF like it was a sports car, then watching your battery temperature is a prudent thing to do. As it would be prudent to watching battery temperature with a sports car rather than a LEAF. Same thing for long drives with multiple QCs, and with mountain driving.
Given the acceleration of a BEV and those new to driving one, some may attempt to emulate your "unrealistic scenario" link
on a twisty road with a new Leaf like the Porsche 919 hybrid;

https://www.motor1.com/news/250680/pors ... ord-video/

Yes, conservative driving a Leaf is not problematic, e.g. I rarely go over 50 - 55 MPH.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 4.5K miles, 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

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