bigrob90
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Re: Official Infiniti LE thread - early 2017, 60 kWh

Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:54 pm

evnow wrote:
bigrob90 wrote:But there is no requirement for them to put out an Infiniti at all.

There is - Nissan wants to put a competitor to Model 3.

If this is a car for EveryMan, why does it need to be an Infiniti? What does that actually gain Nissan? They would then have to invest even more money in training and installing DCFC at Infiniti dealers. I just don't see the ROI, unless they let Nissan prove the concept enough to appeal to the Infiniti dealers and, more importantly, the Infiniti customers. If Nissan goes first, I think it gives them a much better chance of succeeding at selling an Infiniti.
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bigrob90
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Re: Official Infiniti LE thread - early 2017, 60 kWh

Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:59 pm

What advantage would an Infiniti EV have against a Tesla Model 3? I think Nissan has to beat Tesla on cost, because they probably won't beat them on anything else. That suggests that it would not be an Infiniti they'd be marketing. I just don't see it.
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Re: Official Infiniti LE thread - early 2017, 60 kWh

Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:51 pm

They need to use the Infinity name to justify the higher price even though it's not a great brand period.

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Re: Official Infiniti LE thread - early 2017, 60 kWh

Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:16 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:They need to use the Infinity name to justify the higher price even though it's not a great brand period.

I understand the theory there. And that can work with an ICE car, with a globally available fueling system which is well understood by all parties. But I don't think the brand means much of anything in the EV world. Unless the brand is Tesla. And that's largely because of the Supercharging network. The only people who would pay a premium for an Infiniti EV it seems to me would be current Leaf buyers.
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Re: Official Infiniti LE thread - early 2017, 60 kWh

Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:46 pm

bigrob90 wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:They need to use the Infinity name to justify the higher price even though it's not a great brand period.

I understand the theory there. And that can work with an ICE car, with a globally available fueling system which is well understood by all parties. But I don't think the brand means much of anything in the EV world. Unless the brand is Tesla. And that's largely because of the Supercharging network. The only people who would pay a premium for an Infiniti EV it seems to me would be current Leaf buyers.


Plenty of people are interested in an EV but may perceive the infinity brand one they would buy over a Nissan. There are also many infinity buyers that would look at an EV with the infinity name, personally I would never buy an infinity product, It' all marketing to demographics. I think the brand is horrible for many reasons.

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Re: Official Infiniti LE thread - early 2017, 60 kWh

Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:55 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:
bigrob90 wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:They need to use the Infinity name to justify the higher price even though it's not a great brand period.

I understand the theory there. And that can work with an ICE car, with a globally available fueling system which is well understood by all parties. But I don't think the brand means much of anything in the EV world. Unless the brand is Tesla. And that's largely because of the Supercharging network. The only people who would pay a premium for an Infiniti EV it seems to me would be current Leaf buyers.


Plenty of people are interested in an EV but may perceive the infinity brand one they would buy over a Nissan. There are also many infinity buyers that would look at an EV with the infinity name, personally I would never buy an infinity product, It' all marketing to demographics. I think the brand is horrible for many reasons.


Since the method for refueling is new to the typical buyer, I just don't think there is any "value add" there for anyone except for those already buying EVs. And if there is really a premium, why would an EV buyer buy an Infiniti over a Tesla? That's the real question to me. Why would they? Why would an EV buyer who is already paying a premium buy *any* brand over a Tesla? Any vehicle buyer, with rare exception (and that's for the *very* high end) is going to look at the utility of the vehicle as actual transportation first. If a car is less capable of actually driving from place to place, that will take precedence over other concerns. Right now, the Teslas with supercharging are more useful as vehicles. How can another maker charge a premium over that? It's not as if Tesla is looked upon as some cheap brand. They have brand cachet already. And they have more utility. I think the other makers have to undercut them in cost, or improve upon them in utility. But time will tell, of course.
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Re: Official Infiniti LE thread - early 2017, 60 kWh

Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:09 pm

Many people do not even know what a Tesla is but do know what an infinity is. Many people also trust established brands and adding the infinity name allows them to justify higher pricing. If you think that everyone would buy a Tesla then you may be living in an EV bubble. Since the majority of people in the SF area own Mac computers that does not translate everywhere. Why anyone would buy a Windows machine over a Mac baffles me but there are parts of the country where it is the opposite. Perhaps they will buy an infinity, there are more Infinity dealers to do that as well. Wake me up when these two competing cars are available. Tesla has yet to prove itself in any market other than the ultra premium car market so far.

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Re: Official Infiniti LE thread - early 2017, 60 kWh

Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:03 pm

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2014 ... /index.htm


"The brand to watch is Tesla Motors, which jumped from 47 points last year, to fifth position and 88 points this year. Tesla had a strong, very public year, with soaring stock prices, magazine awards, sterling crash-test performance, and even claiming the spot as the top-rated car by Consumer Reports. Innovation, performance, and sleek styling is clearly gaining attention and making a positive impression. By accumulating points in several categories, Tesla was able to raise its overall score. This highlights the value of being good at multiple things, rather than relying on a single facet."


Infiniti was 9th worst with 22 points. If you think Infiniti brings more pricing power to the table than Tesla you are living in a bubble.

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Re: Official Infiniti LE thread - early 2017, 60 kWh

Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:16 pm

DeeAgeaux wrote:http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2014/02/2014-car-brand-perception-survey/index.htm


"The brand to watch is Tesla Motors, which jumped from 47 points last year, to fifth position and 88 points this year. Tesla had a strong, very public year, with soaring stock prices, magazine awards, sterling crash-test performance, and even claiming the spot as the top-rated car by Consumer Reports. Innovation, performance, and sleek styling is clearly gaining attention and making a positive impression. By accumulating points in several categories, Tesla was able to raise its overall score. This highlights the value of being good at multiple things, rather than relying on a single facet."


Infiniti was 9th worst with 22 points. If you think Infiniti brings more pricing power to the table than Tesla you are living in a bubble.



I think Infinity is unappealing as a brand. Not sure what pricing power they bring since I never said that but Tesla can't survive only selling $100K EVs in an emerging market. Of course they have a great product but they need to expand that line to survive or remain a niche company with no competition to survive. Infinity and Tesla buyers don't have a big crossover but there is a product slot for many products. It's much easier to build a world class high-range EV for $100K price, competing in the $30-50K range is another story, one they have yet to do yet. My guess is starting in the high 40's to low $50's before BMW style options are added to drive up the price. There will be a surprise player too I predict, one that had average cars and them made them really nice. Hint..

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Re: Official Infiniti LE thread - early 2017, 60 kWh

Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:33 am

EVDRIVER wrote:Why anyone would buy a Windows machine over a Mac baffles me but there are parts of the country where it is the opposite.


This one is easy - perceived value. The vast majority of people I know who choose Windows over Mac do so for the fact that the Windows machine has better specs (on paper) at a lower price. So they believe it is the better deal. They completely ignore the superior user experience of the Mac, giving it, IMHO, the better actual value.

Which EV would have the better perceived value is hard to say without knowing the specs. I suspect that the Supercharging network would give Tesla the leg up, even if the owner never uses it. On the other hand, Infiniti is an established brand which some people may simply trust more than the new kid on the block (Tesla).
Last edited by GetOffYourGas on Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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