rtz
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What's considered high mileage?

Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:10 pm

Not concerned about the battery. Wondering about the rest of the vehicle. What are some of the highest mileage vehicles out there?

Any other stuff wearing out with them?

I've owned plenty of older vehicles over the decades that were high mileage and many years old so I'm away of what that entails.

But not familiar with how an EV handles age and miles.

alozzy
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Re: What's considered high mileage?

Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:34 pm

Your lack of concern for the battery is concerning :lol:

Honestly, with the LEAF, unless you get unlucky, the life of the car will be dictated entirely by the life of the battery pack. Eventually, it's range will no longer be adequate. Given the cost of a new battery pack, almost all old LEAFs will become completely useless and end up as scrap. One can only hope that a wrecker will resell/repurpose/recycle the battery pack.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
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cwerdna
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Re: What's considered high mileage?

Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:33 pm

^^^
Yep. I tend to agree unless Nissan recovers those old nearly worthless Leafs, puts new/refurbished batteries in them and is able to sell them for a profit.

Since Leaf doesn't have much range, 100K miles is kinda "high mileage".

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=21961&p=461145#p461145 with original crap battery formulation in an ideal climate for Leaf was a 5 bar loser on his '11 at 150K miles in 2016.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

leafydeafy
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Re: What's considered high mileage?

Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:06 am

I'm interested in the OP's question: Are there any things to watch out for besides the battery?

I just purchased a new '18 Leaf and plan on driving it for 8-10+ years. (I only drive about 8-10K miles a year.)

My additional question: If everything else, besides the battery, is still in solid working order, is it worth it to replace the battery pack? How much does it cost out of pocket to replace the pack?

My thinking is: if everything else is in good working order, why not just replace the battery and keep going? Especially if it's just going to be a 2nd or 3rd car at that point. It probably beats buying a more expensive used version (where you don't know its history or how the previous driver treated/drove it).

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Stanton
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Re: What's considered high mileage?

Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:15 am

News flash: I don't think we can extrapolate anything from the (old) Leaf 1.0 to the (new) Leaf 2.0...especially once they replace the whole battery pack system (batteries/BMS/TMS) in 2019.
Having said that, I have had virtually no problems with my Leaf...except the battery pack. ;)
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/floor mats & window tint
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RonDawg
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Re: What's considered high mileage?

Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:17 am

cwerdna wrote:
alozzy wrote:Honestly, with the LEAF, unless you get unlucky, the life of the car will be dictated entirely by the life of the battery pack. Eventually, it's range will no longer be adequate. Given the cost of a new battery pack, almost all old LEAFs will become completely useless and end up as scrap. One can only hope that a wrecker will resell/repurpose/recycle the battery pack.


I tend to agree unless Nissan recovers those old nearly worthless Leafs, puts new/refurbished batteries in them and is able to sell them for a profit.


Hopefully there will be third-party vendor for replacement batteries as there is for the Prius.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

johnlocke
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Re: What's considered high mileage?

Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:58 pm

These cars were designed as commuter vehicles. Nissan expected 8000-10000 mi/yr usage. Although there are a few high mileage Leafs (100K+) out there (mostly cabs or delivery cars), nobody has reported wear related failures other than interiors. The battery seems to be the failure point and Nissan prices them out of the market ($8500 to replace an out of warranty battery at last check). At that price you're better off selling the car for $4000 and applying the money for the battery replacement to a new car instead. It's obsolescence at it's best. Nissan is interested in selling you a new Leaf to help boost their CAFE MPG ratings so they can sell more SUV's and trucks that have much higher profit margins.

There nothing wrong with that business model unless you are the consumer. Nissan sells cars, Dealers sell service. There's nothing to service on a Leaf except brakes and tires and the brakes last a very long time. It's no wonder that dealers don't push Leafs. Even if you could buy the battery at a reasonable price (say $3000) it might not make financial sense to do so. Still better off to buy the new improved version with a bigger, longer lasting battery and get all the new toys. Put a new battery in a $5000 Leaf and it's still only worth $7000-$8000, If you get Nissan to do it under warranty then you are good to go but otherwise it doesn't make sense.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

alozzy
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Re: What's considered high mileage?

Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:41 pm

I mentioned in another post a win-win solution for dealing with older LEAFs that have degraded batteries:

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=25882&hilit=replacement&start=70#p532715

Nissan could make a commitment, to anyone who trades in an older leaf for a newer one, that they (Nissan) will replace the battery pack on the older LEAF before reselling the car, and also make sure that the old pack is repurposed (ie grid storage) or responsibly recycled.

Making that commitment should also reduce depreciation rates on the LEAF, which (in the long term) would make it worth their while to replace worn out packs in the first place


If Nissan made that commitment, I'm sure they would win many repeat business from current LEAF owners. They would also be taking on an industry leadership role as long term stewards of the life-cycle of lithium ion packs. They already have committed to remanufacturing old packs:

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/05/15/ni ... -for-leaf/

So why not take that one more step and make sure that older LEAFs live out their useful lives, beyond the first battery pack...
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
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Talock2018
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Re: What's considered high mileage?

Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:16 pm

I kinda think some of the "cost for a new battery pack" math is a little fuzzy. I totally agree that we should see lower prices for replacement packs as the tech becomes more mainstream, and that the cost of replacement seems like a deliberate design for obsolescence, BUT i think if we are arguing that the car itself requires almost zero maintenance and a new back pretty much equals a new car (assuming it isnt rusted out or something) then we shouldn't really be comparing the cost of new pack to the list value of a LEAF with that age, but rather compare it to the value of replacing it with a similar new or only slightly used car. I would argue, that even at $8500, you would be very hard pressed to find a comparable ICE or hybrid without SERIOUS mileage on the drivetrain. Further, i would argue that when considering the potential $8500 replacement cost, one must first deduct the savings of virtually zero maintenance prior to replacement. When looked at in that light, while i still take issue with the cost of replacement, it seems far more palatable. Even if you bought a used LEAF for say $8k that IMMEDIATELY needed a replacement battery, you are still talking $16-17k for basically a new car, cause there is nothing else in there...There isn't a better priced hatchback on the market today that i know of - and certainly not one that you could operate for less $. Now, if we are instead comparing only to other BEVs, that's different of course, but they also cost much more...

I design high performance buildings for a living that tend to be all-electric and use a tiny fraction of the energy typically required to heat/cool. When an owner moves in, i invariably get an email after one month shocked at how much higher their electric bill is than in their old building, COMPLETELY forgetting that they are no longer also paying for oil/propane/natural gas/etc. It seems there is a bit of this here.
2013 SL Super Black | 54,300 miles | 12 bars
AHr - 57.01 | SOH - 87.17%
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johnlocke
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Re: What's considered high mileage?

Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:16 pm

Talock2018 wrote:I kinda think some of the "cost for a new battery pack" math is a little fuzzy. I totally agree that we should see lower prices for replacement packs as the tech becomes more mainstream, and that the cost of replacement seems like a deliberate design for obsolescence, BUT i think if we are arguing that the car itself requires almost zero maintenance and a new back pretty much equals a new car (assuming it isnt rusted out or something) then we shouldn't really be comparing the cost of new pack to the list value of a LEAF with that age, but rather compare it to the value of replacing it with a similar new or only slightly used car. I would argue, that even at $8500, you would be very hard pressed to find a comparable ICE or hybrid without SERIOUS mileage on the drivetrain. Further, i would argue that when considering the potential $8500 replacement cost, one must first deduct the savings of virtually zero maintenance prior to replacement. When looked at in that light, while i still take issue with the cost of replacement, it seems far more palatable. Even if you bought a used LEAF for say $8k that IMMEDIATELY needed a replacement battery, you are still talking $16-17k for basically a new car, cause there is nothing else in there...There isn't a better priced hatchback on the market today that i know of - and certainly not one that you could operate for less $. Now, if we are instead comparing only to other BEVs, that's different of course, but they also cost much more...

I design high performance buildings for a living that tend to be all-electric and use a tiny fraction of the energy typically required to heat/cool. When an owner moves in, i invariably get an email after one month shocked at how much higher their electric bill is than in their old building, COMPLETELY forgetting that they are no longer also paying for oil/propane/natural gas/etc. It seems there is a bit of this here.

Problem with that idea is that the market doesn't work that way. If I can buy a two or three year old Leaf with a good battery and low mileage for $12-13K off lease in excellent condition, why should I buy a six year old Leaf for $8k and dump another $8K into it for a new battery? That only works if I can find a leaf for $4k or less and I still end up with an $8K Leaf. It might work IF I commit to driving it into the ground and scrapping it out for parts at the end. Yes, the maintenance costs are likely to be very low but that is true in either case.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

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