Do I need change my electricity plan to charge off-peak time

Hi, I am a new owener of EV.
I live in Santa Maria, CA. PG&E is my electric Co. My current resedential plan is Tiered Base Plan. Should I switch to different plan with off-peak use (EV Base Plan). Did everybody continue using their current Electricity Plan after buying EV? Enybody who lives on Central cost??? Please, need advice ASAP.
How much is a monthly cost of using EV if I have to charge EV every day at home (I drive 70 mi/day)? I have to charge 90% of battery every day.
Thank you for any input.

No, you don't need to. http://www.pge.com/cgi-bin/pevcalculator/PEV" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; might help.

konstantin said:

How much is a monthly cost of using EV if I have to charge EV every day at home (I drive 70 mi/day)? Thank you for any input.

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Too difficult to answer w/the scant details you've provided. We could give an estimate but it could be off by more than a factor of 2 or 3.

I sure hope that 70 miles isn't mostly highway. It could become dicey in winter as the battery degrades. Did you buy or lease?

Thanks. Can you give me the base estimate of EV use cost if I drive 70-80 mi/day. I need to charge 90% of the battery daily.

Some of the responses at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=7071" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; might help.

I have no idea if you're going to try to charge at 120 volts or use an L2 EVSE to charge at 240 volts and what its amperage is. Let's assume you do 120 volts and you need to add 19 kWh to the battery (Leaf has ~21 kWh usable battery, out of 24 kWh). You'd need to pull ~25.3 kWh/day from the wall due to the high charging losses at 120 volts.

I can only guess you're on the E-1 schedule (http://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-1.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false. Since you've told us nothing about what tier you're hitting now, I'm going to assume you're in or near tier 4 already of 33.504 cents/kWh. 25.3 * 0.33504 = $8.48. Even, if you're not, I can only guess charging an EV that much will push you into tier 4.

If you're going to use 120 volts to charge, you will probably have trouble replenishing enough charge each night due to the slowness of 120 volts. 120 volts * 12 amps = 1440 watts = 1.44 kW, so each hour 1.44 kWh comes out of the wall. 25.3 / 1.44 = 17.569 hours, assuming full power the whole time. There is a tapering near the end, but let's count that out for now.

This $8.48 is about the worst case sticking w/E-1 and again, 120 volt charging will not work for you as you progress through the week, unless you switch to L2 charging, have some charging somewhere else (e.g. destinations) or use another car.

Switching to L2 (208/240 volts) even with a 15 or 16 amp L2 EVSE will enable you to fully replenish overnight AND will save you $ on electricity costs, as the charging losses are lower.

Again, if your drives are mostly highway and you own the the car, the commute will get dicey in winter, as the battery degrades. You will have to slow down and/or limit heat usage...and eventually, you won't make it unless you slow way down or charge in between/at destination.

BTW, I had to kinda guess about "tiered base plan" as people don't normally use that terminology. I found http://www.pge.com/en/myhome/saveenergymoney/plans/tiers/index.page" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. I'm on E-6 Smart (soon to switch to just E-6). I was on E-1.

I think you should try http://www.pge.com/cgi-bin/pevcalculator/PEV" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

cwerdna said:

I can only guess you're on the E-1 schedule (http://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-1.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false. Since you've told us nothing about what tier you're hitting now, I'm going to assume you're in or near tier 4 already of 33.504 cents/kWh. 25.3 * 0.33504 = $8.48. Even, if you're not, I can only guess charging an EV that much will push you into tier 4.

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Ok I may not have a bay or much other cool stuff but I do get cheap electric here (and yes, a high % from coal but moving very fast to natural gas) http://www.iplpower.com/uploadedFiles/iplpowercom/Business/Programs_and_Services/Rate%20EVX%20effective%2001.19.11.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So based on the kWh used as reported by my new IPL supplied meter, my last 300 miles (plus a couple of morning preheats when the temps got down to 30 in mid April) cost me just over $2.00.

konstantin said:

Thanks. Can you give me the base estimate of EV use cost if I drive 70-80 mi/day. I need to charge 90% of the battery daily.

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Charging 90% daily points to the TOU rate saving you money vs standard tiered rate.

The other issue is how much can you avoid weekday on-peak pricing. If no one is home during the day to need air conditioning you should also fair well. Electric oven for example should stay off during on-peak rates to save money. We bake more on the weekends now and use the stove top during the week. We also consistently set the dishwasher timer to run during super off-peak same as charging the car.

My SCE rates are different however my bill dropped about $60 per month moving to TOU.

jpadc said:

Ok I may not have a bay or much other cool stuff but I do get cheap electric here (and yes, a high % from coal but moving very fast to natural gas) http://www.iplpower.com/uploadedFiles/iplpowercom/Business/Programs_and_Services/Rate%20EVX%20effective%2001.19.11.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So based on the kWh used as reported by my new IPL supplied meter, my last 300 miles (plus a couple of morning preheats when the temps got down to 30 in mid April) cost me just over $2.00.

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Wow. You have really cheap rates!

Compare yours to
E-1: http://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-1.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (see page 1)
E-6: http://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-6.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (look at pages 2 and 4).
EV: http://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_EV.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (EV-A is on page 1; EV-B requires a separate meter for charging only, which isn't free; see page 4 for ridiculous time bands)

I'm in area (baseline territory) X , code B (map is at http://www.pge.com/en/myhome/saveenergymoney/financialassistance/medicalbaseline/understand/index.page" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false. So, my baseline (tier 1) is 10.1 kWh/day in "summer" and 10.9 kWh/day in "winter". Multiply that by 30 days or so. So, for a 30 day month, if I go over 303 kWh in that month in summer or 327 kWh in winter, I end up in tier 2 (101 to 130% of baseline) and so on.

EV plans have no tiers.

I switched to a TOU plan with PG&E (nor-cal) and it actually made my bill drop slightly (that includes charging the car most days). My Off -Peak rate is about .11/kwh-summer and .10kwh-winter. I was able to set my washer and dishwasher to start after 11:00PM to benefit as well. Also since my wife and I are never home during the day, we aren't using much peak power. Since we were able to offset our standard use, the TOU plan is a way better deal for us!

Living in Texas, it is interesting to see how California TOU rates are meshing with EV charging. The Texas EV market is still modest compared with California but we are seeing more TOU rates from competitive electricity providers. In anticipation of delivery of my Leaf, I have been studying these rates. One in particular offers a 6.5 cent/kWh daytime rate and a 4.8 cent/kWh rate between 10 pm and 6 am. http://electricitymatch.com/champion-energy-launches-texas-time-of-use-rates/. This does not include the utility delivery charge and the company estimates and effective all-in rate of around 10 cents/kWh for my home in Houston.

The around-the-clock estimate assumes 70% of my home usage is during the day and 30% is during the night block (10 pm to 6 am). I assume by charging my EV at night I will do pretty well. My back of the envelope calculations have my effective rate around 9 cents per kWh all year long. That includes the electricity provider rate as well as the utility delivery tariff charges. I read over the terms and conditions and nothing precludes using these rates for EV charging. Sounds like a good way to go. Hope to see more of these rate structures in the market.

Here in WA the PSE rate is 8.5 cent/KWh for the first 600 KWh and 10 cent for anything above 600. I do wish we switch to a TOU plan though, given how much PSE says it cares about the environment I'm surprised it hasn't done so.

hewitt66 said:

Living in Texas, it is interesting to see how California TOU rates are meshing with EV charging. The Texas EV market is still modest compared with California but we are seeing more TOU rates from competitive electricity providers. In anticipation of delivery of my Leaf, I have been studying these rates. One in particular offers a 6.5 cent/kWh daytime rate and a 4.8 cent/kWh rate between 10 pm and 6 am. http://electricitymatch.com/champion-energy-launches-texas-time-of-use-rates/. This does not include the utility delivery charge and the company estimates and effective all-in rate of around 10 cents/kWh for my home in Houston.

The around-the-clock estimate assumes 70% of my home usage is during the day and 30% is during the night block (10 pm to 6 am). I assume by charging my EV at night I will do pretty well. My back of the envelope calculations have my effective rate around 9 cents per kWh all year long. That includes the electricity provider rate as well as the utility delivery tariff charges. I read over the terms and conditions and nothing precludes using these rates for EV charging. Sounds like a good way to go. Hope to see more of these rate structures in the market.

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Update - Houston area now has a "solar days and free nights". Essentially 13.5 cents/KWH from 6:00 AM to 9:00 PM and free the other 12 hours. (plus fixed fees). After punching the numbers for last years actual usage, using an average straight rate (~9 cents/KWH), I would have to use at least 60% of my useage during "free nights" just to break even. For my useage, that left about $1000/year at most (100% free nights) to pay off any investments required to shift energy usage.

However, we don't use much energy compared to many here - so many may find that buying a used (or really cheap new?) Leaf for everyday commuting combined with charging at night could absolutely pay off, especially considering the savings in driving ICE vrs EV (for me is almost 40 cents/mile all in - that does include the energy costs however). My situation is a little different in that I need a "Suburban" type vehicle for my business - use the Leaf for all "suburban" errands.