jimch530
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:17 pm

2011 with new battery vs. 2013 with 12 bars

Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:11 pm

I'm brand new to LEAFs and EVs and have lots of questions, but I can't find a FAQ on this website other than the one about how to use the website. I would have expected it as a stick topic in this forum.

Can anybody point me to a source that is like a LEAF for Dummies or Battery Basics? I particularly want to know about all the terms used in LeafSpy such as SOH, GIDs, Hx, etc. and what values I should be looking for in a used LEAF.

We are looking to use this car for everyday driving (we just bought a Honda Pilot for road trips). Both of us are retired, so our typical trip is 6 miles downhill (900 foot loss) to town, 5 to 15 miles of driving around and then 6 miles back home uphill. Temperatures aren't too extreme. Highs down the hill usually max out in the 90's, lows in winter usually bottom out in the 20's. It won't in be sitting in a hot parking lot for more than a few hours. We don't plan to drive it out of town except for the annual battery check at the Nissan dealer, which is about 50 miles and 3,400 feet lower. That is also the closest ChaDemo charger. Hope we can make it home from there on one charge. We will also be leaving it sitting in the garage for 2-3 months at a time while we travel, so I know I should keep it plugged in with a partial charge and a trickle charger on the 12 volt battery (like we do on our ICE cars in the same circumstances).

So I was leaning towards the 2013 S as our preferred ride. I think it will charge just fine overnight in the garage with 110 volts. I would rather have the heat pump, but not enough to pay the SV/SL premiums. Will preheating in winter help using 110 volts?

We found one on Craigslist with 22,000 miles and 12 bars for an asking price of $9,950. I haven't looked at it yet. It is located about 30 miles away.

Then I found a 2011 SL locally with 21,864 miles that had a new battery installed under warranty in November. LeafSpy confirmed 100% SOH. They are asking $12,000 which I think is very high.

Which do you guys think would be a better vehicle? First edition with a fresh start, or improved engineering with a used battery that is still allegedly in good shape and has some time/miles left on the bumper to bumper?

dhanson865
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Leaf Number: 16156
Location: Tennessee

Re: 2011 with new battery vs. 2013 with 12 bars

Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:32 pm

I'd rather have the 2011 with new battery, doubly so if it has heated seats and steering wheel (not all 2011s got that).

No telling until you do the work on how low the SOH% is on the 2013.

If the 2011 doesn't have heated seats it'd be harder to choose, you'd have to know the SOH% to make the full comparison.
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speedski97
Posts: 135
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:44 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Dec 2013
Location: Whittier Ca

Re: 2011 with new battery vs. 2013 with 12 bars

Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:43 pm

I don't know if the 13 S has a heat pump. I think the13 SV or13 SL have the pump. I am sure someone on here knows. the 11 SL is over prices should be 10 to 11 K if perfect. the 11 sl is a nice car I have one. For checking out a used leaf with leaf spy, you want to look at amp hours 66 AHr is new. 43 is 70%.. the 13 if it has a Quick charge port will have a larger charger 6.6 KWH. the 11 sl has the port but the onboard charger is 3.3 KWH . both cars will work for you. the trip at 5o miles and 3000 feet... 4 miles per KWH for 50 miles = 12.5 KWH the height gain 1.5 KWH for 1000 feet gain times 3 = 4.5 kwh + 12.5 = 17 KWH. A new battery will just make it. You will need to find a place to charge on the way back.. enjoy your hunt, if you have more Questions ask.

Valdemar
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Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: 2011 with new battery vs. 2013 with 12 bars

Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:26 am

One consideration is the availability of major spare parts from junk yards in the future, availability should be better for 2013.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB), -1CB(53.92Ahr)@140k/29mo,
53.92AHr, SOH 84.5%, 140k miles

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Evoforce
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Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: 2011 with new battery vs. 2013 with 12 bars

Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:42 am

I paid $12,500 for a 2011 SL on 4/28/15 with a (new) battery and a dealer (Gold) extended warranty from a private party sale. Having a like new car was worth it to me with those extra perks. Plus, I paid no dealer fees and sales tax. Prices did go down some since, but you need to know the condition of the 2013 battery car, as you and others have already stated. Good luck!
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

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Jefe
Gold Member
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Leaf Number: 405983
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Re: 2011 with new battery vs. 2013 with 12 bars

Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:03 am

speedski97 wrote:I don't know if the 13 S has a heat pump. I think the13 SV or13 SL have the pump. I am sure someone on here knows. the 11 SL is over prices should be 10 to 11 K if perfect. the 11 sl is a nice car I have one. For checking out a used leaf with leaf spy, you want to look at amp hours 66 AHr is new. 43 is 70%.. the 13 if it has a Quick charge port will have a larger charger 6.6 KWH. the 11 sl has the port but the onboard charger is 3.3 KWH . both cars will work for you. the trip at 5o miles and 3000 feet... 4 miles per KWH for 50 miles = 12.5 KWH the height gain 1.5 KWH for 1000 feet gain times 3 = 4.5 kwh + 12.5 = 17 KWH. A new battery will just make it. You will need to find a place to charge on the way back.. enjoy your hunt, if you have more Questions ask.


S does not have heat pump. S has 3.3kw charger (unless it has the QC package). SV/SL is a significant upgrade from the S.
2013 SV + Premium Pkg. No QC.

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Jefe
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Re: 2011 with new battery vs. 2013 with 12 bars

Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:55 am

jimch530 wrote:I particularly want to know about all the terms used in LeafSpy such as SOH, GIDs, Hx, etc. and what values I should be looking for in a used LEAF.


Have you looked at the LeafSpy help file? It does a good job of explaining all of these terms.
2013 SV + Premium Pkg. No QC.

jimch530
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:17 pm

Re: 2011 with new battery vs. 2013 with 12 bars

Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:24 pm

Thanks to all of you for your advice. I decided to go for the used 2011 with a 2015 battery. When I checked the Carfax I found it was from Arizona, no wonder Nissan had to replace the battery. We settled on $10,750 as a sales price. The guy I bought it from had paid $21,988 plus dealer addons when it came off lease in 2013. Over $11,000 in depreciation in 2.5 years and only 5,200 miles. Brutal.

The shopping experience was interesting. None of the salesmen (even at Nissan) knew much about the cars. One small lot dealer who specializes in Leafs didn't know about LeafSpy and was amazed when I showed him the condition of the batteries in his cars. He was pricing totally based on miles. He ordered an OBD-II connector and the iOS version of the software while I was still in his office.

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mwalsh
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Re: 2011 with new battery vs. 2013 with 12 bars

Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:34 pm

jimch530 wrote:One small lot dealer who specializes in Leafs didn't know about LeafSpy and was amazed when I showed him the condition of the batteries in his cars. He was pricing totally based on miles. He ordered an OBD-II connector and the iOS version of the software while I was still in his office.


That's pretty bizarre. I mean, OK, I get that we're LEAF nerds here, but if I was making all or part of my living from selling a product I'd be darn certain to know as much about it as possible.
2011 Blue Ocean SL with 76,000 miles.
2015 pack under warranty 12/30/15.
Tinted windows.
Bridgestone Ecopia 422+ tires.
L1 EVSE upgrade.
FIAMM horns.
Superbright LED lighting.
2013 sun visors.
LED shifter.
Heated seats.
GT-R map lamp lenses.
AV L2 EVSE.

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Stanton
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Re: 2011 with new battery vs. 2013 with 12 bars

Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:41 pm

If you can verify the battery replacement/stats, I would take the 2011 SL with a new pack hands down. Lots of reasons, but I wouldn't even blink at that price with a new battery pack.
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/floor mats & window tint
12v LiFePO4 battery & FIAMM 74100 horns
Wet Okole seat covers (front)
Tor's low-power heater mod
2013 sun visor
3G modem upgrade
L2 EVSE Upgrade
Battery Pack replaced (Rev E) @51 months and 41k miles

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