brycenesbitt
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:48 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Feb 2016

Re: Buying a new (used) Leaf: How do I use Leaf Spy to evaluate a car?

Mon May 30, 2016 3:28 pm

So what's "good" and "bad" for LeafSpy numbers from various ages of Leaf?

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9851
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Buying a new (used) Leaf: How do I use Leaf Spy to evaluate a car?

Mon May 30, 2016 4:02 pm

I have a 2013 SV with a little under 14K on the odometer. My climate is generally mild, but with plenty of hot days - we just ended a 3 day heat wave here, and I took a 50 mile trip over the weekend that involved driving up a small mountain in 86-94F temps. I just read my pack this evening.

58.43AH

89% SOH

88.3 (I think, 88.something, anyway) Hx

13mv cell difference

2078 L1 & L-2 charges

0 QC charges.

My readings are fairly typical of a 2013 made after March of 2013, in a non-Hot climate. 2013 Leafs in genuinely cool climates are still reading in the 90s for SOH, if they were built after 3/13. Those in Hot climates with later build dates have typically dropped one capacity bar.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SUN007
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:29 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Jul 2016
Location: California

Re: Buying a new (used) Leaf: How do I use Leaf Spy to evaluate a car?

Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:42 pm

Can someone please advise for this car ?

Its average is only 1.4 miles / kwh What does that mean ?

its done 34,000 miles.


What does it tell about the battery health ? Should i buy this ?

Image
Image

baustin
Posts: 676
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:23 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2015
Leaf Number: 402162
Location: North Las Vegas, NV

Re: Buying a new (used) Leaf: How do I use Leaf Spy to evaluate a car?

Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:44 pm

That doesn't tell you anything about the battery health, only about how the car has been driven since the counter was last reset. I would expect that number to normally be around 4 miles per kwh. The dash counter on mine shows 3.9, and the one in the Nav shows 4.5. I have never reset them, and I am not the most economical driver. It could possibly be a sign that the BMS has been reset (whether on purpose or through a software update) which would cause the capacity bars to show as 12, even if the battery is degraded. The battery capacity bars are a more important indicator than the Miles per kwh.

My advice on buying a Leaf is to find a 2013 or newer (SV or SL) model. Check the sticker on the door and buy one that was manufactured 4/13 or later. Check the battery state using LeafSpy. Try to avoid one that has spent its life in a warm climate. Make sure they have the SD card for the NAV system and prove that it works before purchase. Check the CarFax report for anything odd. Take the VIN number to a Nissan Service location and get the service history for the vehicle (or call the Nissan EV line and ask them 877-NOGASEV).

Fill in the location in your profile and we can give answers more tailored to your region of the world, especially concerning 2011/2012 Leafs.
2013 Leaf SV - Cayenne Red - QC Port - LED Headlights

SUN007
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:29 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Jul 2016
Location: California

Re: Buying a new (used) Leaf: How do I use Leaf Spy to evaluate a car?

Fri Jul 15, 2016 6:22 pm

baustin wrote:That doesn't tell you anything about the battery health, only about how the car has been driven since the counter was last reset. I would expect that number to normally be around 4 miles per kwh. The dash counter on mine shows 3.9, and the one in the Nav shows 4.5. I have never reset them, and I am not the most economical driver. It could possibly be a sign that the BMS has been reset (whether on purpose or through a software update) which would cause the capacity bars to show as 12, even if the battery is degraded. The battery capacity bars are a more important indicator than the Miles per kwh.

My advice on buying a Leaf is to find a 2013 or newer (SV or SL) model. Check the sticker on the door and buy one that was manufactured 4/13 or later. Check the battery state using LeafSpy. Try to avoid one that has spent its life in a warm climate. Make sure they have the SD card for the NAV system and prove that it works before purchase. Check the CarFax report for anything odd. Take the VIN number to a Nissan Service location and get the service history for the vehicle (or call the Nissan EV line and ask them 877-NOGASEV).

Fill in the location in your profile and we can give answers more tailored to your region of the world, especially concerning 2011/2012 Leafs.


Many many thanks for this important points and consolidating them
Currently there are many Lease returns in the market.
1) I noticed the car-fax shows the car service history , and for some cars , there are hardly any service records. Either the records are missing or the Lease owners did not bother to get them serviced. Does this matter ? Should this be a deal breaker ?

2) Whats the deal with this SD card? Is there special SD card / software , or do i need to get my own SD card with mp3 songs ?

3) To Check the battery state using LeafSpy, do i need the paid version called "LeafSpy" for 9.99 ?

4) Anything specific i need to ask the Nissan EV line / 877-NOGASEV ? what questions ?

5) I test drove a leaf with 2013 SV , 18K miles with Ok tires. It was not enjoyable ( I confess, i had recently driven a new kia EV, which made the old leaf specially unappealing. The Kia seamed very stable and well built. The B mode very was strong).
The car seamed to have build quality issues, and i could hear suspension noise and squeeks even at low speeds.
Is this normal. i wonder why at just 18k, the car did not feel solid, and felt worn out. Should i even consider a car of 35K miles ?

SUN007
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:29 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Jul 2016
Location: California

Re: Buying a new (used) Leaf: How do I use Leaf Spy to evaluate a car?

Fri Jul 15, 2016 6:28 pm

What does Miles per kwh indicator have to do with battery capacity ? Miles per kwh is just a reflection of traffic or poor driving .
I thought they are two unrelated things ? am I missing Anything ? Please advise ?

At a Dealer, the Miles per kwh can be low , due to test driving etc.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9851
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Buying a new (used) Leaf: How do I use Leaf Spy to evaluate a car?

Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:29 pm

What does Miles per kwh indicator have to do with battery capacity ? Miles per kwh is just a reflection of traffic or poor driving .
I thought they are two unrelated things ? am I missing Anything ? Please advise ?


You are pretty much correct. If the average is never reset, then it can indicate how the battery was treated as far as load goes, but that is unlikely to be the case. The missing Nav SD card is a common problem with dealer cars, and it is serious. You definitely want the card.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
Posts: 8416
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Buying a new (used) Leaf: How do I use Leaf Spy to evaluate a car?

Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:15 pm

SUN007 wrote:2) Whats the deal with this SD card? Is there special SD card / software , or do i need to get my own SD card with mp3 songs ?

The SD card has the maps, but I believe much or all of the head unit is inoperable w/o the SD card. Normally, you'd order updated maps from places like http://nissan.navigation.com/sku/ev_mas ... ssanNA/USD, but, if it's missing, as the page says, you'd need to order one from the dealer. I'd expect that to be at least $179.

SUN007 wrote:The car seamed to have build quality issues, and i could hear suspension noise and squeeks even at low speeds.
Is this normal. i wonder why at just 18k, the car did not feel solid, and felt worn out.

Not normal. My former '13 Leaf SV that are returned shy of 24K miles and the used one I bought last year w/under 24K (now nearing 36K) is not like that. However, there is an intermittent dash rattle on mine (usually when colder) coming probably from the eyebrow display area that my local dealer wasn't able to resolve and now my 3 year/36K basic warranty that would cover that is over. Oh well.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

baustin
Posts: 676
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:23 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2015
Leaf Number: 402162
Location: North Las Vegas, NV

Re: Buying a new (used) Leaf: How do I use Leaf Spy to evaluate a car?

Sat Jul 16, 2016 3:46 am

SUN007 wrote:
baustin wrote:That doesn't tell you anything about the battery health, only about how the car has been driven since the counter was last reset. I would expect that number to normally be around 4 miles per kwh. The dash counter on mine shows 3.9, and the one in the Nav shows 4.5. I have never reset them, and I am not the most economical driver. It could possibly be a sign that the BMS has been reset (whether on purpose or through a software update) which would cause the capacity bars to show as 12, even if the battery is degraded. The battery capacity bars are a more important indicator than the Miles per kwh.

My advice on buying a Leaf is to find a 2013 or newer (SV or SL) model. Check the sticker on the door and buy one that was manufactured 4/13 or later. Check the battery state using LeafSpy. Try to avoid one that has spent its life in a warm climate. Make sure they have the SD card for the NAV system and prove that it works before purchase. Check the CarFax report for anything odd. Take the VIN number to a Nissan Service location and get the service history for the vehicle (or call the Nissan EV line and ask them 877-NOGASEV).

Fill in the location in your profile and we can give answers more tailored to your region of the world, especially concerning 2011/2012 Leafs.


Many many thanks for this important points and consolidating them
Currently there are many Lease returns in the market.
1) I noticed the car-fax shows the car service history , and for some cars , there are hardly any service records. Either the records are missing or the Lease owners did not bother to get them serviced. Does this matter ? Should this be a deal breaker ?

2) Whats the deal with this SD card? Is there special SD card / software , or do i need to get my own SD card with mp3 songs ?

3) To Check the battery state using LeafSpy, do i need the paid version called "LeafSpy" for 9.99 ?

4) Anything specific i need to ask the Nissan EV line / 877-NOGASEV ? what questions ?

5) I test drove a leaf with 2013 SV , 18K miles with Ok tires. It was not enjoyable ( I confess, i had recently driven a new kia EV, which made the old leaf specially unappealing. The Kia seamed very stable and well built. The B mode very was strong).
The car seamed to have build quality issues, and i could hear suspension noise and squeeks even at low speeds.
Is this normal. i wonder why at just 18k, the car did not feel solid, and felt worn out. Should i even consider a car of 35K miles ?


1. The Leaf needs very little service, other than the annual battery check, and regular tire rotations. Periodically check the 12v battery and top off the cells with distilled water. The brake fluid should be replaced every couple years in humid environments. The cabin air filter should be done once a year (about an hour DIY with $12 filter, or $100 at the dealer).

2. SD cards are programmed to the NAV unit. They are not interchangeable between cars. This is a deal breaker. Do not buy unless the NAV unit is fully functional. Also, make sure you get two key FOBS as part of the deal. They have to be programmed to the car, and the dealers charge $300 to replace them.

3. Leaf Spy Lite (the free version) should work. Just for checking batteries before purchase, you can use your phone. I have the Pro Version installed on a separate Android tablet. The ELM327 blue-tooth dongles work well, but it has to be a version 1.5 for the Leaf (version 2.1 dongles won't work). The three important things to note are the SOH, Hx, and AHr numbers. The battery does not need to be fully charged when checking.

4. With 2013 and newer models, just ask about the service history and if the recalls and software updates have been done. Confirm the in-service date and mileage (start of warranty) for the vehicle. Also ask if there is a transferable service contract on the car. On 2011 and 2012 models, confirm that it was not opted-out of the battery warranty settlement. Personally, I would avoid 2011 and 2012 models, unless the traction battery has been replaced and it shows 12 capacity bars. If you're the gambling type, you can buy a 2012 cheap (with bars missing) and hope you lose four bars before the 5yr/60k limit kicks in on the battery capacity warranty.

5. The Leaf should be a solid car that drives good and holds the road well. If it doesn't feel right, avoid it, as it may have been in an accident. Many people do over-inflate the tires for better range, which will make it ride a little stiff. I have some noise out of the right front strut when going over bumps. The dealer replaced it under warranty and it got rid of most of the noise, but I still occasionally hear it when hitting the bump leaving my driveway. I have read some complaints about build quality, but have no issues with mine (built 1/13). I would also recommend looking for a model that has the LED headlights factory installed (instead of the Halogen lights).
2013 Leaf SV - Cayenne Red - QC Port - LED Headlights

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9851
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Buying a new (used) Leaf: How do I use Leaf Spy to evaluate a car?

Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:08 pm

5. The Leaf should be a solid car that drives good and holds the road well. If it doesn't feel right, avoid it, as it may have been in an accident.


First check to see if it has the OEM Ecopias mounted. These tires give great range, but make the handling "mushy" and have weak sidewalls. Replacing those with better LRR (or if range isn't an issue for you, good non-LRR) tires can make a huge difference in handling.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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