baustin
Posts: 619
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:23 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2015
Leaf Number: 402162
Location: North Las Vegas, NV

Re: Buying a new (used) Leaf: How do I use Leaf Spy to evaluate a car?

Sat Jul 16, 2016 4:56 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
5. The Leaf should be a solid car that drives good and holds the road well. If it doesn't feel right, avoid it, as it may have been in an accident.


First check to see if it has the OEM Ecopias mounted. These tires give great range, but make the handling "mushy" and have weak sidewalls. Replacing those with better LRR (or if range isn't an issue for you, good non-LRR) tires can make a huge difference in handling.


Maybe that's why mine drives so well. The guy I bought it from replaced the original tires with some Westlake brand tires before I ever drove it. I run them around 42psi, but have never had any tire issues. The range may suffer a little, as I don't believe they are LRR tires.
2013 Leaf SV - Cayenne Red - QC Port - LED Headlights

LeftieBiker
Posts: 8795
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Buying a new (used) Leaf: How do I use Leaf Spy to evaluate a car?

Sat Jul 16, 2016 5:20 pm

Some non-LRR tires do very well - even cheap ones like the Goodyear Eagle L/S tires I have on mine. I get 4.2 M/KWH, better handling than the Ecrapias, and they cost $275 delivered to my door. US-made, too.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

howardc64
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:20 pm

Re: Buying a new (used) Leaf: How do I use Leaf Spy to evaluate a car?

Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:41 pm

baustin wrote:
1. The Leaf needs very little service, other than the annual battery check, and regular tire rotations. Periodically check the 12v battery and top off the cells with distilled water. The brake fluid should be replaced every couple years in humid environments. The cabin air filter should be done once a year (about an hour DIY with $12 filter, or $100 at the dealer).

2. SD cards are programmed to the NAV unit. They are not interchangeable between cars. This is a deal breaker. Do not buy unless the NAV unit is fully functional. Also, make sure you get two key FOBS as part of the deal. They have to be programmed to the car, and the dealers charge $300 to replace them.

3. Leaf Spy Lite (the free version) should work. Just for checking batteries before purchase, you can use your phone. I have the Pro Version installed on a separate Android tablet. The ELM327 blue-tooth dongles work well, but it has to be a version 1.5 for the Leaf (version 2.1 dongles won't work). The three important things to note are the SOH, Hx, and AHr numbers. The battery does not need to be fully charged when checking.

4. With 2013 and newer models, just ask about the service history and if the recalls and software updates have been done. Confirm the in-service date and mileage (start of warranty) for the vehicle. Also ask if there is a transferable service contract on the car. On 2011 and 2012 models, confirm that it was not opted-out of the battery warranty settlement. Personally, I would avoid 2011 and 2012 models, unless the traction battery has been replaced and it shows 12 capacity bars. If you're the gambling type, you can buy a 2012 cheap (with bars missing) and hope you lose four bars before the 5yr/60k limit kicks in on the battery capacity warranty.

5. The Leaf should be a solid car that drives good and holds the road well. If it doesn't feel right, avoid it, as it may have been in an accident. Many people do over-inflate the tires for better range, which will make it ride a little stiff. I have some noise out of the right front strut when going over bumps. The dealer replaced it under warranty and it got rid of most of the noise, but I still occasionally hear it when hitting the bump leaving my driveway. I have read some complaints about build quality, but have no issues with mine (built 1/13). I would also recommend looking for a model that has the LED headlights factory installed (instead of the Halogen lights).


Looking for a 2nd electric car for around town so looking at the LEAF. This summary is a great checklist. Have a quick question

Tip #3 shows key numbers to look for are SOH, Hx, and AHr. Just want to confirm where to find these LeafSpy Lite screen

Image

I assume SOH = Hlth, AHr = AHr on the screen. What is Hx?

BTW, first EV is a Tesla and the battery longevity is really great due to 2 key reasons

1. Rarely undergo full range charge and depletion. Basically always charging and discharging in the middle of the capacity range. Just about all battery tech lifecycle benefits from limited range use.
2. Full temperature control with a liquid cooling system with good channel flow against heat during hot days + high speed DC charging (Superchargers goes at 120kWhr!)

Long term reports shows between 5-10% capacity loss at 100k miles. Anyhow, LEAF's and Ford Focus's smaller packs seems to degrade fast due to #1 and LEAF has the added non active cooling system burden. Just a not and not passing judgement. Obviously necessity cost trade offs :)
13 Tesla Model S 85kWhr
11 Prius
07 Prius (looking to exchange to an EV)

LeftieBiker
Posts: 8795
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Buying a new (used) Leaf: How do I use Leaf Spy to evaluate a car?

Sat Sep 03, 2016 1:18 pm

I don't know if this has been mentioned in this topic, but when looking at a 2013 leaf, check the build date on the driver's side door jamb sticker. You want to avoid Leafs built Jan-March of 2013, as they appear to use the old battery chemistry, which degrades quickly. Cars built from April 2013 on are much better at resisting degradation. If you do find an early 2013 leaf with 9 (or 8!) capacity bars, it may be a good candidate for free battery replacement when it drops one more capacity bar...
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

speedski97
Posts: 132
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:44 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Dec 2013
Location: Whittier Ca

Re: Buying a new (used) Leaf: How do I use Leaf Spy to evaluate a car?

Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:17 pm

So imo,
1 The SD card needs to be in place. The data is used from the Nav to the dash. When I bought my 11 SL with no card it took a month to get the card,and after installed. I lost 3 bars in the next 2 weeks.
2 The car has to be tight, no squeaks, rattles . run if you hear any.
3 Road test for 20 min. over a few roads stop and fast charge and L 2 charge, check the 120 volt cord that it is there and that it works.
4 Leaf spy. 2 % capacity loss a year is normal per Nissan. ( or more if their warrantee is right)
5 Outline this when you walk on the lot If they don't want to play...walk, lots of leafs out there.

baustin
Posts: 619
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:23 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2015
Leaf Number: 402162
Location: North Las Vegas, NV

Re: Buying a new (used) Leaf: How do I use Leaf Spy to evaluate a car?

Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:24 am

howardc64 wrote:
Looking for a 2nd electric car for around town so looking at the LEAF. This summary is a great checklist. Have a quick question

Tip #3 shows key numbers to look for are SOH, Hx, and AHr. Just want to confirm where to find these LeafSpy Lite screen

Image

I assume SOH = Hlth, AHr = AHr on the screen. What is Hx?

BTW, first EV is a Tesla and the battery longevity is really great due to 2 key reasons

1. Rarely undergo full range charge and depletion. Basically always charging and discharging in the middle of the capacity range. Just about all battery tech lifecycle benefits from limited range use.
2. Full temperature control with a liquid cooling system with good channel flow against heat during hot days + high speed DC charging (Superchargers goes at 120kWhr!)

Long term reports shows between 5-10% capacity loss at 100k miles. Anyhow, LEAF's and Ford Focus's smaller packs seems to degrade fast due to #1 and LEAF has the added non active cooling system burden. Just a not and not passing judgement. Obviously necessity cost trade offs :)


Hx is another health indicator, don't really know its exact meaning. Apparently, Leaf Spy Lite doesn't show that number. The car, in the image shown, is close to dropping the first bar, if it hasn't done so already (based on the health reading). One of the things to watch for is a low AHr reading (like 40-45) but 12 capacity bars on the dash display. This indicates a BMS reset, and a dealer to avoid.
2013 Leaf SV - Cayenne Red - QC Port - LED Headlights

howardc64
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:20 pm

Re: Buying a new (used) Leaf: How do I use Leaf Spy to evaluate a car?

Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:09 am

baustin wrote:Hx is another health indicator, don't really know its exact meaning. Apparently, Leaf Spy Lite doesn't show that number. The car, in the image shown, is close to dropping the first bar, if it hasn't done so already (based on the health reading). One of the things to watch for is a low AHr reading (like 40-45) but 12 capacity bars on the dash display. This indicates a BMS reset, and a dealer to avoid.


Thanks for the reply on Hx. And yes I read about dealers doing BMS resets that can be detected with AHr discrepancy.
13 Tesla Model S 85kWhr
11 Prius
07 Prius (looking to exchange to an EV)

LeftieBiker
Posts: 8795
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Buying a new (used) Leaf: How do I use Leaf Spy to evaluate a car?

Sun Sep 04, 2016 12:08 pm

Hx correlates almost exactly with the remaining capacity, as a percentage. So a Hx reading of 89 means the car has about 89% of its original capacity left. That reading alone will suffice to evaluate a used Leaf, although Hx plus AH is better.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Billabob1234
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 7:42 pm
Delivery Date: 24 May 2018
Location: Allentown PA

Re: Buying a new (used) Leaf: How do I use Leaf Spy to evaluate a car?

Wed May 23, 2018 7:53 pm

Hi everyone. I’m interested in buying a used leaf. I bought the obd-2 dongle because I wanted to check with Leaf Spy before buying. I looked at one car and am not totally sure how to interpret everything. The thing that concerns me is the difference between SOH and Hx. SOH is 76%, but Hx only reads 55%. The owner said he can get 65+ miles of range, which sounds like the 75% number is accurate. The vehicle has 10 battery bars which lines up with the amp hour rating. Going to link to the screenshot and see if this works.. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1F3COR ... VRGUFhdVSK

LeftieBiker
Posts: 8795
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Buying a new (used) Leaf: How do I use Leaf Spy to evaluate a car?

Wed May 23, 2018 8:15 pm

They do vary from each other. I don't know how accurate this is, but I assume a SOH roughly halfway between the two numbers when they vary that much.

Now, why do you want to buy a Leaf with fewer than 10 full capacity bars? Very short trip use only?
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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