Possible 2012 purchase

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Durandal

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 21, 2016
Messages
365
Location
Central Arkansas
I will be looking at a 2012 Leaf SL this week, 23,000 miles and 10 capacity bars left on the battery health gauge. I've purchased an ODBII bluetooth sensor (Veepeak VP11) in hopes of using LeafSpy on the Leaf when it arrives to look at battery health and such. My daily commute is 20 miles each way, and the GoM says a range of 70mi, but from my lurking on here, I should ignore the GoM. If it has lost 2 bars, then I should estimate a 15% loss in capacity? That would leave me with 20kwh? Anyhow, I'm guessing usable range to be 57-60 miles, depending on speed, etc, etc.

Anyhow, I'm looking forward to joining the EV crowd. This is honestly to hold me over for about 4-5 years until I can buy a used Tesla M3. I've got a beater Honda Accord to drive when I've got to do longer trips. Sadly no charging available at work, but for emergencies there is a ChargePoint that's about 8 blocks away that I could park at if I had to.
 
Cost? I hope it is about or under $8,000, which would be a decent price in this area.

I have a 2012, one bar missing, 79%SOH. At 100% charge I only have a tad more than 16 kwh of available juice according to LSpy. At 80% charge it is a tad over 14kwh. At 100% charge I have gone 63 miles and was expecting turtle to kick in. Those miles were mostly under 50mph. Freeway speeds really suck the juice. As will the heater. I would suggest installing TorC's heater mod, details are on this site.

I love the car. Every week it saves me at least $60 in fuel. I love depreciating assets that appreciate your bank account faster than they become worthless, which is why I think buying/leasing a newer Leaf is crazy. Just one man's opinion.
 
My daily commute is 20 miles each way, and the GoM says a range of 70mi, but from my lurking on here, I should ignore the GoM. If it has lost 2 bars, then I should estimate a 15% loss in capacity? That would leave me with 20kwh? Anyhow, I'm guessing usable range to be 57-60 miles, depending on speed, etc, etc.

I think you are overestimating the capacity. The Leaf looses it's first bar at a 15% loss. With two bars showing you have a capacity of 78.75% to 72.5%. Leaf Spy will soon tell you.

You don't indicate your area. The SL model has a Chademo Quick Charging port. Is the Chargepoint near you Quick or Level Two. If Level Two you will only be able to charge at 3.6kw which gives you about 12 miles per hour of charging.

Do estimate your range to drop off quickly and see if it will still meet your needs to be on the safe side of purchasing.
 
I'm getting it for $6000, accounting for my trade-in, which is where I think they are making their money. It is listed for $8,000. I'm in the Little Rock, AR area. My normal commute involves highway, but there are alternate routes that do not involve highway that adds about 4 miles of distance, but the average speed is 45mph instead of 70mph. Going anything less than 60mph on the freeway here is asking to get killed. I will have to do an A to B test to see which works better. I plan on doing 120v charging to 80% if possible, 90% or above if range anxiety gets to be too bad. Plugshare says there is a charging spot 2 blocks from my work, but I've not taken a look at it. I will swing by there after work today to see what the deal is. Plugshare says "ChargePoint Wall Outlet (120v), EV Plug (J1772)" so trickle charging during the day should work assuming there isn't much competition for the spots, and moving my car after I hit 80%. I will have to do more research on charging etiquette to make sure I'm not stepping on any toes.

I will check out the heater mod. In fact, I intend on doing any and all sorts of mods on it once the warranty expires. :D
 
^^^ $6k is a very decent deal, assuming your trade it isn't worth more than ~$2k. I agree about your 60mph, in fact I'd say that anything less than 70 is heading for trouble.....they really fly on the freeways :eek:
I have a '12 missing 2 bars(like the one your looking at) and with a 100% charge(actually doesn't go past 92%) I can get 60 miles at 65-70 mph with no problem in the summer, with much heat use in the winter(I live in the fridged north) that could drop to < ~40 miles. I'd also strongly suggest Thor's heater mod switch, without it you really have no control over when the energy hog heater comes on, if the temp is low and you want air to possibly defog/defrost the windows.
The '12 only has a 16a 240v L2 charger so expect only ~15%/hr of charging, of course a DC QC can get you to 80% in ~30 min. but they aren't as readily available as L2 or even L1 outlet chargers.
Once you get it you can play around with trying to get by with a 80% charge for your 40 mile commute, it would probably be close and would depend quite a bit on your driving habits and of course heater use.
 
What jjeff said. As I live in a hilly and often windy rural area, I only get about 40 miles at 70mph.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uq86hzcj802x47o/LEAFrangeChartVersion7G75.pdf?dl=0

I can't vouch for this. The numbers seem way better than my 11bar car ever gets.
 
jkline, thanks for the range estimate chart based upon number of bars. Judging by that, the "expense" of going an additional 4 miles difference to let me go at 45mph and netting an additional 27 miles in range is better than going 65mph. I'm pretty experienced with hypermiling back when I had an 85 Honda CRX HF, I could squeeze 57mpg out of that thing using lots of coasting, drafting, etc and with the original motor having over 300,000 miles on it. It eventually gave up the ghost a few years ago.

jjeff, I have some air cooled seat covers I can use in the summer to reduce my air conditioner use, and I'm going to order TorC's heater mod tomorrow after I sign the paperwork on my Leaf.
 
Another thing: have the dealer make sure both batteries are charged. If the 2012 has been sitting for awhile, you might plan on buying a new 12v battery-- mine was toast. I charge that one weekly.

Charging that battery is my biggest annoyance with the Leaf. When I get a chance, I plan on rigging a quick plug in next to the main battery charger so I don't need to open the hood all the time.
 
Durandal said:
js ago.
jjeff, I have some air cooled seat covers I can use in the summer to reduce my air conditioner use, and I'm going to order TorC's heater mod tomorrow after I sign the paperwork on my Leaf.
Personally I don't notice much difference in AC use on range, maybe 5 miles on a full charge?? where heater use seems to be more significant. Not that 5 miles might not make the difference between getting someplace or not but for the most part I don't really worry about using the AC, fulltime heater use is a different story, thats where the heater switch can really help.
After using the vehicle for a while you'll start getting a good handle on what it can or can't do. Being a '12 I think you'll find the most valuable addition will be something like a LeafDD or LeafSpy and a OBDII dongle, without it your at the mercy of the wildly varying GOM, something that will for sure give you range anxiety if your trying to cut things close.
 
The dealership, which is 4.5 hours away from me is supposed to be delivering it this afternoon for me to test drive, so I'm hoping the ODB2 dongle I purchased works with Leaf Spy. I guess I'll find out in about 9 hours! Excited!
 
Super Fun!

Just fyi, the AC draws at or just under 1kW at full blast and drops down to around 300 watts to maintain according to leafspy. Nothing like the 5kW from the heater.
 
Durandal...

I am not trying to crush your dream of owning a Leaf... I think that you are trying to stuff 30 lbs. of tomatoes into a 10 lbs. bag here...

You say the you are buying a '12 Leaf with 2 bars missing for a 40--50 mile round trip work commute. You also say that you have to go 70 mph, and want to only charge it with a level 1 (120v) charger, and only charge it to 80% every night.. If you start a trip with that car at 80%, in 40 or so miles the battery will be at 20-25%, and you will already having range anxiety... Then, we have to also add the need for heat AND A//C in the winter to heat the car and run the window defogger..

My friend it is not going to work. A '12 Leaf with only 10 bars is undergoing what in the Elderly Care (old age) business is called "Terminal Decline". You need to assume that even if you can make your trip today, the range will SURELY decline in months or even a year, and the car will not be useful to you then.. Anyone who buys used Leaf (especially with 2 bars missing) has to assume that the car will soon (1-2 years) need a new battery replacement. If you do not have that in your plan AND budget.... Do not buy a used Leaf. And I only say that so that someday you don't write on this forum how the Nissan Leaf SUX...

I drive my car a lot, and when the range falls, I plan to have my wife, who stays at home, drive it only locally for errands. We will drive the Leaf until you can only go 20-30 miles, and then replace the battery. That is my Leaf battery plan.

Good luck,
 
I don't have to take the freeway. There is an alternate route that adds 4 miles each direction to the commute but drops the speed from being 65-70mph to being 45mph. If I can get 45-50 miles range out of it when traveling 45-50mph for at least 3 years, I will be happy. There is a L1 charger 2 blocks from my work, I checked it out yesterday. It is city owned, but I have to check to see if I can park there without getting ticketed or towed.

If I have to charge it to 100%, I will. I was just trying to stick within that magical charging range if possible.
I guess that the real crux of the matter is whether or not I can utilize the L1 charging that is by my work on a daily basis for long term use.
 
As an extra note, I plan on installing a L2 charger at my home eventually, probably in a few months, depending on the costs involved with running 240v out to that point.
 
Well, I wouldn't hesitate driving mine 40 miles/day at max 50mph at 80% charge. I look at mine as the perfect disposable car. My two ICE's get about 12mpg. I'm on track to save at least $2,500 in fuel this year. In three years, the car will have paid for itself. I doubt I'll ever buy a new battery for it-- I'll have my eye on a used Bolt by then, and this will either be a kids car or sold as is.

Would be nice if you could find an leaf with only one bar missing, or less. There are some out there. I almost got a 2013, but decided on a Leaf made in Japan.
 
Durandal said:
As an extra note, I plan on installing a L2 charger at my home eventually, probably in a few months, depending on the costs involved with running 240v out to that point.
You'd have a couple options for that. One would be to have your OEM EVSE upgraded by EVSEupgrade.com, for change over $300 you'd have a nice EVSE with the ability to limit the charging currents down to 6a. Another option which I'd be more inclined to do would be to purchase a cheap 16a L2 portable EVSE from either Amazon(I purchased and like a Ebusbar for $299 shipped) or either Tony here on MNL or VegasBrad also on MNL have similar models for around the same price or even less. To me the advantage of the Ebusbar or VegasBrad's models is they not only charge 240v but also 120v. The EVSEupgrade option also works on 120v but AFAIK Tony's model only works on 240v.

Another advantage to you for purchasing a second EVSE is if you have issues with one of them, you always have a backup. Not that I've ever had my EVSEupgrade'd EVSE fail, but it's always a possibility, that or theft. I also dislike always plugging and unplugging my EVSE, much easier to just leave one in the outlet(in my garage) and the other coiled in the car for emergencies. Personally I'd always want one in the car for emergencies, others may feel differently.

With your '12 you don't really gain anything by purchasing a EVSE that outputs more than 16a as thats as fast as your car can charge, 16a means a 20a circuit, although if your pulling new wire to your garage I'd might suggest installing a 30a circuit or maybe even a 40a as most newer Leafs can charge up to 27.5a, and require a 40 a circuit. That way if you eventually upgraded to a newer model you wouldn't have to pull new wiring which can be costly.

Lastly depending on what EVSE you purchase you might need to install a new plug, my Ebusbar came with a old style dryer plug and I simply installed a L6-30p plug. EVSEupgrade has also standardized on the L6-30p plug as I believe Brads model may be, not sure about Tony's but check for sure before you order. A L6-30p from Amazon can be had for <$10 but can cost >$25 if purchased locally. Outlets are also much better priced on Amazon and if you purchase the Ebusbar you'll need to make your own 120v to 240v converter plug to allow you to plug the EVSE into a standard 120v wall outlet, Brad sells such converter cables as I believe Tony does also and EVSEupgrade also does for sure.
 
JJeff,

Thanks for the info! So far I'm quite impressed with the community here. :)
I was talking to my bro about the topic, he suggested running the biggest wire I can do to a sub box, and then running two 40amp outlets off of that, to allow for future expandability when I get a newer EV in the future to add to the family. (Probably will be a Tesla Model 3, assuming I can get a used one for a good price in 2020, otherwise a Volt for the wife in a year.)

I don't have a garage but instead a carport, so that puts all normal indoor chargers out of reach unless I build some sort of enclosure, but I'm getting ahead of myself at the moment. The car is set to arrive at my house this afternoon, so I'll get to test drive it and hook up LeafSpy to see what it has to say about the matter.
 
powersurge said:
Durandal...

I am not trying to crush your dream of owning a Leaf... I think that you are trying to stuff 30 lbs. of tomatoes into a 10 lbs. bag here...

Good luck,

Well, after calling around, it turns out that the charger nearby my work is available to the public (I wasn't sure it was at first) and then it also is free, EV charging etiquette applicable, of course. The past two days I've gone by it there is a Nissan Leaf that parks in one of the two slots, but they didn't have their Leaf plugged in at the time. So it looks like for those cold days or the days I have to use the freeway, I should be set.
 
Drove it. Loved it. Bought it. It had 156 GIDs when they dropped it off, so it looks like it is about to drop to 9 bars. I'm Ok with that. With a 20 mile commute each way, and a charger near work, I should be set. :D
 
Depending on when it was sold(not just made but first sold) you may be a good candidate for the battery lottery. If your down to 8 bars by 5 years from the sold date, Nissan may give you a new battery. My '12 is sitting on 10 bars and living in the north I doubt it will be down to 8 by the time the warranty expires mid next year, but you might luck out :)
 
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