Tsiah
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:52 am
Delivery Date: 15 Jan 2017

Re: EV newbie, still shopping but I love the leaf!

Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:16 pm

silverone wrote:
Tsiah wrote:I don't like Chevy's... And the Volt still has all the maintenance I don't want. The whole idea of going EV is the get away from the gas, oil changes, spark plugs, timing belts, water pumps, etc. :D


I'm an owner of both and can see the argument either way. With the Volt, you'd be using so little gas (depending on climate) that it wouldn't matter much to maintenance or otherwise. My 45,000 mile Volt has about 1,500 miles on the ICE, and you'd probably not be using much more with a Gen 2 and slightly more with a Gen 1. At this rate I change tires as often as I change oil (every 2 years).

On the other hand, my recent experience with the LEAF suggests that a non-degraded battery would easily be good enough for quite some time. I'm ending up with 25-50% SOC remaining after my 35 mile one way trip depending on elevation change in low temperatures, but I have reliable charging on both ends (and nothing in the middle). I was earlier advised here against a slightly degraded LEAF due to my commute. It does require more planning and less spontaneity when you have little range left after arriving home.

I'm glad that I still get to experience both.


Maybe I'll go look at a volt...I'm not very interested in the half measure of the hybrid/plugin hybrid car or I'd just buy a Prius. Most of the used volts and prius have a good amount of miles on them in the $11-$12,000 range.

Reddy
Posts: 1419
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:09 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: EV newbie, still shopping but I love the leaf!

Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:34 pm

FULL STOP! Using a Leaf for a 78 mi RT commute in Utah absolutely requires Level 2 (240 V) charging at work and home. You've indicated that you'll wait until that's in place, so good 1st step. Then, remember that you will be an ambassador at work and pretty soon somebody else will get an EV and want to charge as well. So, plan for the future with the realization that you MUST charge at work, so what happens when somebody else takes the station (or stations)? Charging at work needs to cost more than at home so everyone doesn't flock to "free gasoline". 2) Your commute is DOWNHILL from home, so you might not be able to regen as much starting out. This is a significant problem with older 2011/2012 Leafs and their degraded batteries. I'm getting ZERO regen at 50 mph all the way down to under 50% full at our current cold winter temps (10-20F). Many others have complained bitterly about this, especially related to hilly areas. Fortunately, most of my driving is flat, but it is still disappointing when a traffic light turns red when I wasn't expecting it. The newer vehicles are supposed to have different battery chemistry and have currently more regen (but that may change as their batteries age). Something to think about. In your situation I wouldn't go with anything older than a 2015. In fact, if it were me, I'd only go with the 30 KWh battery. 3) Remember that the 24 KWh Leaf only has an EPA rated range of somewhere near 85 mi (and that's NOT highway driving, nor at 20 F in the snow). In the worst conditions you can easily expect 50-60% range (45-50 mi) when the battery is NEW. Most of the 2011/2012 batteries (5-6 years old) are down at least 20% and some 40%. The newer battery chemistry "may" hold up longer, and many appear to be doing better, but we don't have as many years of data. So, if you plan for this degradation, you'll be happier with your purchase. As an example, way back in 2010 Nissan was saying 100 mi range, which I quickly discounted and assumed 50% degradation at some time in the future. Then I knew my commute was less than 10 mi RT. I've been very disappointed in the actual battery degradation, but I still can do all of my in town driving, now and probably for another 10 years. 4) Finally, it sounds like you have a DCQC near work for emergencies. That's great. As long as you plan for this, are aware of the time commitment, costs, availability, etc. We've have had several people on this site that were so committed to driving an EV that they DCQC twice per day, before and after work. If that's you, then great, welcome to our little community, we look forward to hearing your exploits. If not, then daily DCQC can become a drudgery. Good luck with your decision!
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 46.44 AHr; 40,067 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

jjeff
Posts: 1412
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: EV newbie, still shopping but I love the leaf!

Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:43 pm

^^^+1, listen to Reddy, he has good and valid points :)
I wouldn't expect a 78 mile RT even in the summer, winter I'd be hard pressed to try 60 miles without some halfway L2 charging for at least an hour, and this is with my 12 bar '13, wouldn't try either trip with my 10 bar '12 unless I was able to charge for at least a couple hours somewhere in my journey.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

Tsiah
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:52 am
Delivery Date: 15 Jan 2017

Re: EV newbie, still shopping but I love the leaf!

Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:54 pm

Reddy,
You live in Utah? If so, Cool. I've kinda wanted to meet/talk to some people who use the leaf in Utah and how they like driving it around here.

From what I've been reading, I thought 10 hours on an L1 charge would get me the range I need to go to work and 10 hours at work to get back home. Is L2 really necessary to get 38 miles in 10 hours? I'd like to install L2 at home and have use of L2 at work, but I don't know if they're really going to commit to installing EVSE here.

I did want to avoid anything with a lot of miles (I've been looking at stuff that's less than 25k miles) is the battery degradation that bad that I wouldn't be able to go one way and charge to go back the other way?
Maybe I'll have to give it another year or 2 and see if I can afford a model 3... Or move back into the Salt Lake valley. :lol:

Reddy
Posts: 1419
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:09 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: EV newbie, still shopping but I love the leaf!

Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:13 am

Sorry, not in Utah. Check with the Electric Auto Association for a local chapter. Yes you can "make it" with L1-120V, getting about 4-5 mi per hour of charging (so maybe 50 mi overnight in avg weather). But remember that you will always be within a few miles of empty always. Yes, I remember the 70s gas crisis and drove around with less than 5 gallons in the tank all of the time. Is that how you want to live, not knowing if you'll make it home from work? Been there, done that, and no more. So, your real future range could be like mine today. I traveled 25 mi, multiple short trips, temps 5-15 degrees F, heat blasting cause I knew I could. Full battery to 1st Low Battery Warning, maybe another 5-10 mi left, all city driving no freeway speeds. This was all done on a 20% degraded 2011 battery. I'm perfectly comfortable with this range, I just want you to have the information. Sure this is a worst case senario for me, but I would imagine that your worst case will include hills and even lower temperatures. Yes, you will likely be perfectly fine for 3-5 years with a 2013 or later model. But you will always be reliant on work charging being available 100% of the time. Make sure to get an ironclad agreement with the top management and make sure you pay more than your fair share. There have been several people reporting problems with workplace charging, from filled spaces to jealousy to complete removal of charging privileges. Anything can happen (even the good stuff too). Plan for the worst and hope for the best, then you'll be pleasantly surprised by the outcome. Good luck and welcome!
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 46.44 AHr; 40,067 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

Tsiah
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:52 am
Delivery Date: 15 Jan 2017

Re: EV newbie, still shopping but I love the leaf!

Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:07 am

I'm definitely planning on needing to pay for my use of a charging station, but the facilities guy I spoke with made it sound like they were planning on letting us charge for free to encourage EV use.

I can deal with cutting it close on my way from work. It's 38 miles with an 800 foot elevation increase on the way home. If the company doesn't want to install L2 charging, I can commit to going in to the dealership at lunch, plug in and sit there eating, then go back to work. I REALLY want to get away from ICE and the maintenance that's involved.

I'll look into my options for installing L2 at home before I go ahead with the purchase. My panel is upstairs on the opposite side of the house from the garage, but it's a small town house and I have a large plenum space between the top and bottom floor that I should be able to fish wires through. Failing that, I could talk to the HOA and see how they feel about me installing L2 on the side of the unit by my meter and parking my car in the street. I just have to figure out how to protect the cord so it doesn't get damaged by the guys who mow the grass.

Sounds like it's time to buy a single family home that already has 240v in the garage. :lol:

Reddy
Posts: 1419
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:09 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: EV newbie, still shopping but I love the leaf!

Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:32 pm

It sounds like you are committed and willing to make some sacrifices if necessary. That's great! Yes, 120V charging at home and work with the dealership as a backup should work just fine. Make sure to buy the vehicle from that dealership and cultivate a good relationship with them. I've had a great relationship with mine and it has paid off this winter with our temperatures below 10 F. Sorry to sound like a naysayer, but we've seen others in the past who've been disappointed with the range when they tried to push the distance to far. We want people to drive electric, cut gasoline consumption, clean the air, improve national security, and generally improve our nation and the world. Please feel welcome and join us in this quest, for it will be long and arduous. Some days are better than others, some people are more open minded than others, and sometimes times all feels lost. Good luck on finding the best and least expensive option to fit your needs and wants. Please spend a few days reading older threads since just about every question that you can think of has been asked and answered, many times, and with multiple perspectives. One size doesn't fit everyone. :)
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 46.44 AHr; 40,067 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

Tsiah
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:52 am
Delivery Date: 15 Jan 2017

Re: EV newbie, still shopping but I love the leaf!

Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:04 am

Image

just estimating with this calculator. I definitely need to wait till I have L2 charging at both ends of the commute or I'll never get charged when the temperature is low. I'll wait to see what happens with a charge station at work. If they install one, I'll buy an L2 charger for home and figure out how/where to get it wired up/installed, THEN I'll buy the car.

I was really thinking I could charge it just fine on L1 but if it's cold enough out, I'll spend more time heating the battery than charging it and never be able to get the range I need.
Last edited by Tsiah on Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 6941
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: EV newbie, still shopping but I love the leaf!

Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:30 am

You don't seem to understand battery heating or L-1 charging. The battery heater only comes on in single digit Fahrenheit weather, and only uses 300 watts. Preheating the car is entirely separate.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

Tsiah
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:52 am
Delivery Date: 15 Jan 2017

Re: EV newbie, still shopping but I love the leaf!

Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:14 am

LeftieBiker wrote:You don't seem to understand battery heating or L-1 charging. The battery heater only comes on in single digit Fahrenheit weather, and only uses 300 watts. Preheating the car is entirely separate.


I understand the difference between pre heating the car and heating the battery. I didn't know that it was only a 300 watt heater.
My reading has lead me to believe that if it's cold outside and the car starts running the battery heater and you're on L1 charging, it will use the battery to run the battery heater because the L1 can't keep up with the heater and charging.
On a 20 amp outlet you can only draw 1960W (16A @ 120V) as a continuous load. (According to the NEC anyway) is 1600-1900 watts enough to charge the battery to 40 miles of range in 10 hours? Or am I misunderstanding something here?
The builders who built my house screwed me there anyway...I only have a 15A circuit out in the garage.

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