Advice? Seller says "don't worry, you'll get a new battery," should I? (leafspy inside)

I've never owned an EV, and am looking for some advice from seasoned Leaf owners. I'm interested in a 2012 that seems to be a perfect fit for me, except that it has 9 bars of capacity left. The seller says that I shouldn't worry because I can get it replaced as soon as it drops to 8 bars.

I have 10 months to drop a bar, (confirmed with Nissan) is that realistic? Here are the specs:

Leaf Spy:
AHr=47.15
SOH=71%
No QCs
539 L!/L2s
Largest charge differential is 12mv

Usage:
Drive to work everyday (7 miles away) plus various errands, kid's activities, etc. (20-25 miles/weekday would be a reasonable estimate)

Environment:
Central Florida

Charging:
L1/L2 (I'm not expecting to do any DC fast charging)

I realize that nothing's for sure, but what do you think my chances are of getting a battery replacement before the warranty ends? Should I drive with a lead foot and charge to 100% all the time?

Based on the data gathered in this chart ( http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Loss ) the 4th bar usually goes when there is around 42-43AHr of capacity remaining. The SOH varies more widely though.

So I think a good estimate of the question is can I loose 5AHr of capacity in 10 months?

-LeafNewb

The capacity loss warranty requires LOSING the 9th bar (having 8 left). I don't think you're going to make it in a year.

Based upon my experience with my 2011 in Phoenix (hotter than Florida), I don't think you will drop 2 bars in 10 months. It sounds like your range needs are modest so it might work for you if you get a low enough purchase price to justify buying it--just don't plan on getting a free battery.

Gerry

2011RedLeaf said:

The capacity loss warranty requires LOSING the 9th bar (having 8 left). I don't think you're going to make it in a year.

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You're totally correct, I meant to write 9 bars left. I corrected the post above.

(I'm still a newb with all this and misremembered the number threshold)

-LeafNewb

If the seller was *really* confident, s/he would hold on to the car for a few months, replace the battery, and sell for more.

leafnewb said:

2011RedLeaf said:

The capacity loss warranty requires LOSING the 9th bar (having 8 left). I don't think you're going to make it in a year.

Click to expand...

You're totally correct, I meant to write 9 bars left. I corrected the post above.

(I'm still a newb with all this and misremembered the number threshold)

-LeafNewb

Click to expand...

Based on the data gathered in this chart ( http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Loss ) the 4th bar usually goes when there is around 42-43AHr of capacity remaining. The SOH varies more widely though.

So I think a good estimate of the question is can I loose 5AHr of capacity in 10 months?

(I'll add this info to the top post)
-LeafNewb

SageBrush said:

If the seller was *really* confident, s/he would hold on to the car for a few months, replace the battery, and sell for more.

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The seller is hybrid/EV dealer, he doesn't have time to drive all the cars around and run down their batteries.

This is a 1 owner off-lease Georgia car. These are flooding the market right now due to the end of Georgia state subsidies.

-LeafNewb

I don't know that if buy it with the thought that you lose the bar for sure. I'd say it's a possibility, but wouldn't count on it. Buying the car sort of puts you in an awkward situation too because at first your incentive is to try to abuse the battery, but then if you come up short you've done more harm to the battery than would otherwise happen. Tough choice. I'd only go for it if the price was right. If the dealer is trying to sell it as a positive that it will lose the bar and thus not marking down much then I probably wouldn't bite.

Nagorak said:

I don't know that if buy it with the thought that you lose the bar for sure. I'd say it's a possibility, but wouldn't count on it. Buying the car sort of puts you in an awkward situation too because at first your incentive is to try to abuse the battery, but then if you come up short you've done more harm to the battery than would otherwise happen. Tough choice. I'd only go for it if the price was right. If the dealer is trying to sell it as a positive that it will lose the bar and thus not marking down much then I probably wouldn't bite.

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The price is right, the mileage is low, (under 20K) and the 2012 is very desirable for me as I plan to export (after the warranty) to a country that requires things like side marker lights.

I would pay a bit more for a 2012 that already had a battery change, but I haven't found any. I'm also nervous about getting one with BMS reset. Looks like I can check that with leafspy though

I just have no experience with how much battery capacity loss to expect, so I don't know if a 5AHr of loss in 10 months is reasonable.

-LeafNewb

leafnewb said:

SageBrush said:

If the seller was *really* confident, s/he would hold on to the car for a few months, replace the battery, and sell for more.

Click to expand...

The seller is hybrid/EV dealer, he doesn't have time to drive all the cars around and run down their batteries.

Click to expand...

"Driving around" is not required.

SageBrush said:

leafnewb said:

SageBrush said:

If the seller was *really* confident, s/he would hold on to the car for a few months, replace the battery, and sell for more.

Click to expand...

The seller is hybrid/EV dealer, he doesn't have time to drive all the cars around and run down their batteries.

Click to expand...

"Driving around" is not required.

Click to expand...

How else would you run down the battery capacity?

-LeafNewb

Looks like the site ate my post (a new post that I didn't notice can result in that). Short answer: your short driving distances counteract your climate's advantage in killing batteries. Odds are roughly even.

LeftieBiker said:

Looks like the site ate my post (a new post that I didn't notice can result in that). Short answer: your short driving distances counteract your climate's advantage in killing batteries. Odds are roughly even.

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If I really wanted to kill the battery, would it be better (i.e. worse for the battery) to charge to 100% every chance I get, or run it down very low between charges?

Other battery killing activities seem to be having a lead foot, and heating up the car. I can park in direct sunlight, and the lead foot isn't a problem.

-LeafNewb

Sitting at 100% charge for long periods in hot weather, and recharging when the pack is hot (6 temp bars or more) would be optimal.

I wouldn't buy a Leaf expecting to get a free replacement battery; if it works out for you, great, but you might be better served preparing for the worst case scenario and hoping for the best. At any rate, I would be looking at off-lease 2013/2014 Leafs at this point. There should be plenty and you'll have a little more padding with the battery replacement window. Finally based on your needs, it sounds like you'll get by just fine on a Leaf with lowered capacity. Maybe you could consider a dirt-cheap Leaf with limited range.

kwong7 said:

I wouldn't buy a Leaf expecting to get a free replacement battery; if it works out for you, great, but you might be better served preparing for the worst case scenario and hoping for the best. At any rate, I would be looking at off-lease 2013/2014 Leafs at this point. There should be plenty and you'll have a little more padding with the battery replacement window. Finally based on your needs, it sounds like you'll get by just fine on a Leaf with lowered capacity. Maybe you could consider a dirt-cheap Leaf with limited range.

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After I relocate the car, my drive to work is 12.5 miles with a change in elevation of ~250 feet, so I'll have at least 25 miles of driving each day and have to climb 250 feet after not charging all day. It gets cold there in the winter, occasionally down to 20 degrees, but usually it stays around freezing. So I'll have a bit lower capacity in the winter as well. (Garaged at night though.)

-LeafNewb

It gets cold there in the winter, occasionally down to 20 degrees, but usually it stays around freezing. So I'll have a bit lower capacity in the winter as well. (Garaged at night though.

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You definitely want a 2013+ SV or SL, then. They have the heatpump-equipped heating system, and the difference in range at temps from 30-60F is huge, compared to the 2012's liquid-based resistance-only heat, without even an Off switch. An 11 bar 2013 SV (built after March of 2013) would serve you better than a 12 bar 2012. If you want to try to 'win the battery lottery' then look for a Jan-March built 2013 SV or SL with no more than 10 capacity bars showing, and preferably less. Those cars have the older battery chemistry, that wilts like lettuce in heat, but also have the heatpump and some other improvements.

Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

From http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=455984#p455984, the car is has a little while to go before losing the 9th bar.

Hard to say.

LeftieBiker said:

Sitting at 100% charge for long periods in hot weather, and recharging when the pack is hot (6 temp bars or more) would be optimal.

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That and start DC FCing multiple times in a day, to get the battery hot while you still have many months. Better yet to do it on hot summer days.

cwerdna said:

Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

From http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=455984#p455984, the car is has a little while to go before losing the 9th bar.

Hard to say.

LeftieBiker said:

Sitting at 100% charge for long periods in hot weather, and recharging when the pack is hot (6 temp bars or more) would be optimal.

Click to expand...

That and start DC FCing multiple times in a day, to get the battery hot while you still have many months. Better yet to do it on hot summer days.

Click to expand...

Profile updated. Unfortunately, DC fast charging is not an option. Even the local Nissan dealer only has j1772. I was planning to get my EVSE upgraded. I could do level 2 charging in the Garage, but it might be better to do level 1 charging outside in the sun when it gets hot.

Thanks for the link to that thread. It jives with my 42-43AHr estimate from going through all the posts linked from the table I linked to in my first post.

-LeafNewb

leafnewb said:

Unfortunately, DC fast charging is not an option. Even the local Nissan dealer only has j1772.

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http://www.plugshare.com/ shows a few CHAdeMO DC FCs in Florida. Not sure how reachable those are for you.