orsadude2
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:01 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2017

So Which Leaf to Get?

Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:46 pm

I've been eyeing an electric car for a minute. Now, I've narrowed it to the Leaf...but I'm confused by all the options. For the past week, I've been recording how much I really drive daily. I'll be lucky if I get to 25 miles on any given day. I work from home and I only go out to check the mail, pick up the kids, the usual and hardly ever past 10 miles from the house. On top of that...when the weather warms up, I'm on the Harley. I've been known to not drive my car for a week.

So, theres a 2012 SL QC....for sale $6995, but then there are these '13 SL and SV Premiums with QC $9000 max. The only difference I see is the mileage on the cars. More miles cheaper. It seems like a no brainer to get the one with the most options and highest miles, since I'm not going to put very many more miles on it.

So what am I missing? What should I be checking for? Do I need to download this android mobile app and attempt to get the battery information before hand or while I'm at the dealer? Should I go for ones with some factory warranty left?

Is Premium really worth it (surround view and Bose). All my reading on this forum leads me to believe a leaf is a leaf, except for the creature comforts. Since an electric vehicle will be a novelty in itself...I can't miss what I never had, can I?

What say the forum?
orsadude2
Seattle, WA
2015 S w/QC

alozzy
Posts: 601
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: So Which Leaf to Get?

Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:42 pm

Sounds like you aren't too fussy about comfort features, so I'll focus on battery and charging...

Given the limited miles you'll be driving, you might be happy with a 2011/2012 Leaf. However, realize that most of the public charging stations are level 2 and the 2013+ SV and SL models will charge almost twice as fast as 2011/2012 models or 2013 S models.

Also, if you get a Leaf with a quick charge port (CHADEMO), then you'll be able to charge even quicker (0 to 80% in about 1/2 an hour) using level 3 charging stations.

Expected range depends mostly on battery pack condition and your regional climate. Hotter climates degrade the battery quicker whereas, in colder climates during winter, expect diminished range.

Furthermore, 2013+ SV and SL models have a heat pump so they are more efficient (use less battery) during winter in most regions.

Biggest consideration though is definitely the health of the battery. So, either shop at dealerships who will provide a Leafspy report or make a small investment and buy a OBD2 BT enabled dongle. Then, post back here with the SOH, Hx, and AHr values before you buy.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1607
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: So Which Leaf to Get?

Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:49 am

To add to what alozzy said, make sure to check the number of capacity bars displayed on the dash. They are the short bars to the right/outside of the longer State-of-charge bars.

Here is an example of a car that has lost 3 bars:
Image

It will give you an idea of the health of the battery. You can request that the seller send you a picture of the dash with the car on. For a 4-6 year-old car, one or two lost bars is normal. There is a warranty against losing 4 bars within 5 years / 60k miles. At that point, Nissan would replace the battery with a new one.

Happy shopping!
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)

LeftieBiker
Posts: 6789
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: So Which Leaf to Get?

Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:31 pm

It will give you an idea of the health of the battery. You can request that the seller send you a picture of the dash with the car on. For a 4-6 year-old car, one or two lost bars is normal. There is a warranty against losing 4 bars within 5 years / 60k miles. At that point, Nissan would replace the battery with a new one.


It is possible for an unscrupulous dealer or tech to reset the battery management system (BMS) to temporarily display all 12 capacity bars, even when several have been lost. So if you see a pre-2013 Leaf in a warm or hot climate with all 12 bars showing, be very suspicious. Those lost bars are still not really there, and will fade away in the display in a matter of weeks.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

alozzy
Posts: 601
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: So Which Leaf to Get?

Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:43 pm

Agreed, I would never rely on the capacity bars. In fact, I personally wouldn't buy from a dealer who doesn't know what LeafSpy is, or worse yet a dealer who uses LeafSpy themselves, but who won't provide the SOH and AHr values to prospective buyers. Major red flag in either case, as it shows either their ignorance or downright deceit.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1607
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: So Which Leaf to Get?

Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:59 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
It will give you an idea of the health of the battery. You can request that the seller send you a picture of the dash with the car on. For a 4-6 year-old car, one or two lost bars is normal. There is a warranty against losing 4 bars within 5 years / 60k miles. At that point, Nissan would replace the battery with a new one.


It is possible for an unscrupulous dealer or tech to reset the battery management system (BMS) to temporarily display all 12 capacity bars, even when several have been lost. So if you see a pre-2013 Leaf in a warm or hot climate with all 12 bars showing, be very suspicious. Those lost bars are still not really there, and will fade away in the display in a matter of weeks.


I know there were lots of reports of this a few years ago, but does this still happen? It's worth being aware of either way. I thought about mentioning it, but didn't want to bog down to OP with too many details if it's a non-issue any more.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)

orsadude2
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:01 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2017

Re: So Which Leaf to Get?

Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:18 pm

Thanks everyone for all of the advice! I'll be sure to post what I find out. The place I'm looking at is paramount motors northwest:
http://www.paramountmotorsnw.com/.

A few years back >5, they were high dollar/performance cars. When I talked to the salesperson, he said they went 95% EV a couple years ago. Their pricing seems to be in line with the local dealerships. I'd imagine they wouldn't be able to compete if they weren't at least knowledgeable and aware.
orsadude2
Seattle, WA
2015 S w/QC

alozzy
Posts: 601
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: So Which Leaf to Get?

Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:55 pm

I purchased from Paramount, Peter is the owner and he's very knowledgeable. He also will email you a screenshot of LeafSpy if you ask.

Are you from the Vancouver area?
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

LeftieBiker
Posts: 6789
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: So Which Leaf to Get?

Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:14 pm

I know there were lots of reports of this a few years ago, but does this still happen? It's worth being aware of either way. I thought about mentioning it, but didn't want to bog down to OP with too many details if it's a non-issue any more.


If anything I'd expect it to be more common now, with so many Leafs coming off lease and going to auctions. I don't have any stats, though.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

orsadude2
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:01 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2017

Re: So Which Leaf to Get?

Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:50 am

Alozzy, I'm actually in Seattle proper. BTW...paid for and downloaded the $14.00 android LeafSpy app. I also have the BT Dongle thingy and what ever coming from Amazon. If I have learned one thing over the years....it's to always get the proper tools for the job. Just saves on headache and frustration. What's $40 bucks if it saves me hundreds or thousands?
orsadude2
Seattle, WA
2015 S w/QC

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