Anchorage, Alaska - too crazy?

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AKElectric

Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2017
Messages
5
2011 Leafs are posted for $5,000 on Craigslist in Seattle right now. This is low enough that I'm starting to seriously rethink all the good reasons I shouldn't buy a Leaf:

- Nissan refuses to service them in Alaska
- Battery replacement is not an option
- Cold weather temporarily reduces range
- Shipping from Seattle is ~$1,600

On the other hand, there are plenty of 120v chargers at work, and my commute is only 7 miles each way. My current car has averaged 15 miles per day over the past 9 years. I'd like to drive the Leaf for at least the next 7 years, so with my current usage level that should work even if my range drops to 20 miles or less. But with the lower temperatures here, I should be able to get pretty good life out of it.

I'm hoping that all goes well and that due to charging mostly at work my expenses after the initial cost of getting it here will just be insurance, tires, and wipers for the next 7 years.

But if I get in an accident or anything serious breaks it could be a total loss.

I'm looking for folks with more perspective to help me decide whether this is too crazy, or worth the risk.

And if it's too crazy at the moment, will it be worth it when they're selling for $4,000? $2,000?
 
Make sure any 2011 has the "cold weather package." Otherwise you won't get heated seats and steering wheel. I'm not sure that the battery warmer was even an option in 2011, so the 120 volt charging stations at work might be extra useful.
 
AKElectric said:
... I'm starting to seriously rethink all the good reasons I shouldn't buy a Leaf:

- Nissan refuses to service them in Alaska
- Battery replacement is not an option
- Cold weather temporarily reduces range
- Shipping from Seattle is ~$1,600

...

But if I get in an accident or anything serious breaks it could be a total loss.

...

I really like my Leaf, and I think more people should be driving electric. However, I would advise against buying one for the exact reasons you stated.
 
AKElectric said:
2011 Leafs are posted for $5,000 on Craigslist in Seattle right now.
...
- Shipping from Seattle is ~$1,600

...

But if I get in an accident or anything serious breaks it could be a total loss.

Are you willing to risk $6,600 for the chance to try something very new and different? I think you laid out the cost/risk very well. Only you know what your personal tolerance for risk is.

I took on a (IMO) larger risk in 2012 when I got the first EV available to me. It was a huge unknown at the time, which cost me about $23k. It is still running well with only new tires / wipers added in 5 years / 40k miles. In a year or two I will trade it in for a newer model. Even if I get absolutely nothing for the 2012, I am still glad I made the leap. YMMV.
 
You certainly won't have any problem with your commute range, given that 4 hours plugged in at 120v will charge you fully.
 
As Leftiebiker said, watch out on the 2011s because of the lack of cold weather package, some later ones had it, but most didn't. You will probably need the battery heater to keep it from freezing below 0F (unless stored in a semi-heated or insulated garage at night). Some one from Canada added an external pack heater a few years back and was able to see 70 mi range even below 0F. Finally, unless the battery is heated, you will see ZERO regen at those temperatures, and should expect more brake wear and replacement. FYI, my 10-bar 2011 had a range of about 30 mi this past winter at 0F (basically zero regen above 30 mph). EDIT: If near the coast, and not so cold, it will work better. Inland with extreme low temps, not so good.
 
Thanks for the tips about the cold weather package. This caused me to look it up and it appears that for 2011 models if it has the heated seats and steering wheel then it has the cold weather package which means it also has the battery warmer. I agree, this seems essential.

I would be storing it in a heated garage at night, so that does help.

As jlv says, I should be able to recharge fully in 4 hours given my relatively short commute. So it's possible that most or all of my weekend driving could be covered by Friday's 8-hour charge at work.

The point about my personal tolerance for risk is quite pertinent. At a low enough price, the risk is worth it for almost anyone, but it's a different price for each of us. I need to figure that out for myself. One useful metric is total cost per mile assuming worst case I won't be able to resell it after 7 years.

I'm realizing insurance is a useful factor in removing some of the financial risk. If the car gets totaled, it's likely insurance will partially make up the difference. I'm trying to determine just how much that would be. The worst case financial scenario is likely if the battery fails rapidly and spectacularly, or a component fails that requires specialized electrical skills and parts to fix.

But in my situation it's unlikely the battery would deteriorate rapidly enough to prevent my 14-mile daily round trip. Say after 7 more years it dropped to a 15-mile range, it would still work for my purposes, but resale probably wouldn't be possible. I'm hoping I can sell it after 7 years for ~$1,000 but with the way they depreciate who knows, it might be $100. :)

My crazy idea depends on the car needing little to no maintenance for the rest of its useful lifetime, and due to the electric motor the Leaf is about as close as I could hope to get to achieving that.

Another thought is that perhaps Nissan will eventually start selling and supporting electric cars in Alaska due to pressure from Tesla (there are ~15-20 Teslas here), and I'll be able to get the battery replaced locally at some point if needed. The future is all electric, it's just a matter of when. Of course if anyone is going to be laggards, it's going to be Alaska.

Thanks everyone for your helpful observations and input. I need to mull it over a bit more and compare total costs to a hybrid alternative, but right now I think there's a pretty good chance I'll take the risk.
 
Reddy said:
FYI, my 10-bar 2011 had a range of about 30 mi this past winter at 0F (basically zero regen above 30 mph). EDIT: If near the coast, and not so cold, it will work better. Inland with extreme low temps, not so good.

Good to know. We've had a few 0F mornings the past few weeks. Doesn't usually get that cold though.

I assume based on your example if my battery deteriorated to 5 bars that would mean a 15 mile range at 0F. That would work, but would make me a bit nervous about it dropping any further. I've heard of Leafs with fewer bars than that already, so I'd need to make extra sure I get one with 10 bars or more. It would be sweet to find one with a battery replaced under warranty, but that seems fairly unlikely for a 2011, and even more unlikely they'd sell for only $5,000. One of the things that makes the 2011 attractive to me comes from my ability to tolerate quite a bit of battery deterioration in my personal situation.
 
If you do buy a 2011 (or 2012, which run only a bit more when degraded and is more likely to have the cold weather package) look into insulating the heating lines and tank, blocking the grille in Winter, and adding the available "Off" switch for the heat, which otherwise runs whenever the climate control is on and it isn't actually hot outside. That will buy you some range.
 
AKElectric said:
Another thought is that perhaps Nissan will eventually start selling and supporting electric cars in Alaska due to pressure from Tesla (there are ~15-20 Teslas here), and I'll be able to get the battery replaced locally at some point if needed. The future is all electric, it's just a matter of when. Of course if anyone is going to be laggards, it's going to be Alaska.

The reason you cannot get service support for the Leaf in Alaska is that your state's only two Nissan dealers aren't Leaf certified, and likely have no interest in becoming such. The Leaf is otherwise considered a 50 state car.

That said, poke around these forums, as I recall there was a thread about Leafers in Juneau.
 
LeftieBiker said:
If you do buy a 2011 (or 2012, which run only a bit more when degraded and is more likely to have the cold weather package) look into insulating the heating lines and tank, blocking the grille in Winter, and adding the available "Off" switch for the heat, which otherwise runs whenever the climate control is on and it isn't actually hot outside. That will buy you some range.
+1 and also note, in your cold climate the battery will probably not deteriate much if at all from when you buy it. Degradation mainly happens when the pack gets hot, think AZ, TX or FL, not AK :lol: My '13 still has all bars and has lived in MN all it's life.
 
jjeff said:
My '13 still has all bars and has lived in MN all it's life.

Oh wow, that's much better than I expected. If it works out that way for me, it really changes the equation for potential resale value.
 
I think that with that kind of driving, and the fact that you seem like a guy who likes to keep your car as long as you can..... Time is your enemy. Odds are that you will buy a used Leaf. The car will have an already-deteriorating battery in it. If you only drive 5000 miles per year, time will deteriorate the battery faster than you build up the miles. Then you are in a situation of having to replace batteries ($5k), and need to determine of what did it cost you PER MILE. If you got a new Leaf, then the equation may be better.

I have a low mileage 2001 Honda Odyssey minivan with only 60k miles. We only use it for around the neighborhood for shopping, to carry all the family together, and to haul plywood and crap from Home Depot... I have no plans, in the next 10 years or more, to get rid of it because it serves its short-trip function perfectly. Gas cost per year is not an issue. Insurance cost per year is nothing due to age of vehicle and low miles driven. Maintenance is not an issue... One oil change per year, tires last 10 years, and no repairs except maintenance. --- I would not own a Leaf for that purpose because in 16 years of ownership and 60K miles, I would now be on my 3rd of 4th Leaf battery (at $5,000 a pop). Not a good long term investment.

I Think that the best use of a Leaf or any EV is to use it as much as possible, even a 24-hour running taxi, which will use the battery potential to its highest.
 
AKElectric said:
I assume based on your example if my battery deteriorated to 5 bars that would mean a 15 mile range at 0F. That would work, but would make me a bit nervous about it dropping any further. I've heard of Leafs with fewer bars than that already, so I'd need to make extra sure I get one with 10 bars or more. It would be sweet to find one with a battery replaced under warranty, but that seems fairly unlikely for a 2011, and even more unlikely they'd sell for only $5,000. One of the things that makes the 2011 attractive to me comes from my ability to tolerate quite a bit of battery deterioration in my personal situation.
Once you get the Leaf to AK, I really doubt you will see any battery degradation due to temperature. However, you will see "calendar" degradation, but this is much, much less than thermal degradation. I see basically zero degradation from Nov-Mar (although this may be just the information not being updated so that LeafSpy can read it).
 
It's really an open question how much an '11 or '12 battery will continue to deteriorate in Alaska. Don't go by those with 2013 Leafs, because unless they have an early '13 build, their packs have a chemistry that resists age deterioration much more than does the earlier chemistry.
 
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