User avatar
IssacZachary
Forum Supporter
Posts: 292
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:57 am
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 420789
Location: Gunnison, CO, USA

Re: Newbie: Range Questions 34 mile one way commute

Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:00 pm

SageBrush wrote:
IssacZachary wrote: I did this with Sagebrush's calculations of 4.5kWh per mile plus 0.5kWh every 300ft of climb. .

I think I was the first to flip this number :D
Should be 4.5 miles per kWh

OP may want to visit your thread to get a handle on the calcs. The change in elevation portion may not be intuitive, and is NET change.

Oops! Sorry! I meant 4.5 miles per kWh. :oops:
2013 SL, 40,000 miles, 12 bars.

SageBrush
Posts: 414
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Newbie: Range Questions 34 mile one way commute

Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:19 pm

offtosleep wrote:As long as the SOH shows 12 bars, does it really matter what year I get?

The first bar does not drop off until ~ 15% of battery capacity is gone. That is in the range of 12 - 15 miles per full charge that two cars with the same 12 bars can differ one from the other.

This matters even more if you are trying to extend battery life by keeping the SoC between 20 and 80%.
A new car would have 60% of new usable, while the car about to drop a bar would have 45% of new capacity. The healthier car would have 33% more range.
Last edited by SageBrush on Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

User avatar
IssacZachary
Forum Supporter
Posts: 292
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:57 am
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 420789
Location: Gunnison, CO, USA

Re: Newbie: Range Questions 34 mile one way commute

Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:31 pm

offtosleep wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
IssacZachary wrote: I did this with Sagebrush's calculations of 4.5kWh per mile plus 0.5kWh every 300ft of climb. .

I think I was the first to flip this number :D
Should be 4.5 miles per kWh

OP may want to visit your thread to get a handle on the calcs. The change in elevation portion may not be intuitive, and is NET change.



That's where I'm confused. The calculations are NOT intuitive since I'm new to this stuff.


Are you familiar with miles per gallon? It's kind of similar. A gallon of gasoline contains over 33kWh of energy. So the 24kWh battery is less than a gallon of gasoline. Theoretically, if you go, let's say, 4 miles per kWh, and your battery has 24kWh, you should be able to go 4 x 24 = 96 miles on a full charge. If you are getting 3 miles per kWh then you can only go 3 x 24 = 72 miles on a full charge.

But here's the catch. You can never get the full 24kWh from your Leaf. Usually a good new battery will be limited to 21kWh. And as it degrades you'll get less and less. So if you still have 20kWh available then 4 miles per kWH = 80 miles range off of a full charge. 5 miles per kWh would be 100 miles off of a full charge.

Supposedly if you drive at exactly 50mph you use 4.5 miles per kWh, or 90 miles, per charge. If you drive faster that will be less. If you drive slower it will be more.
2013 SL, 40,000 miles, 12 bars.

offtosleep
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:33 pm
Delivery Date: 0- 0-2017

Re: Newbie: Range Questions 34 mile one way commute

Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:28 pm

Do the 2015 S models still have resistance heaters?

User avatar
IssacZachary
Forum Supporter
Posts: 292
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:57 am
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 420789
Location: Gunnison, CO, USA

Re: Newbie: Range Questions 34 mile one way commute

Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:48 pm

offtosleep wrote:Do the 2015 S models still have resistance heaters?

Yes. And the slower level 2 chargers as well unless they have the charger package.

Actually all Leafs have resistance heaters. But the 2013 and newer SL's and SV's also have the heat pump heaters. The heat pump heater works at temperatures above 0*F. At colder temps all Leafs use the resistance heater.
2013 SL, 40,000 miles, 12 bars.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 5681
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Newbie: Range Questions 34 mile one way commute

Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:53 pm

Supposedly if you drive at exactly 50mph you use 4.5 miles per kWh, or 90 miles, per charge. If you drive faster that will be less. If you drive slower it will be more.


Tire pressure, wind resistance, and other factors will affect the number. It seems high to me. Also, while the heat pump is still operating down to about 5F, it doesn't do much good below 15F, compared to the resistance-only heater in the S. In frigid temps, all newer Leafs get about the same range per KWH.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

offtosleep
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:33 pm
Delivery Date: 0- 0-2017

Re: Newbie: Range Questions 34 mile one way commute

Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:13 pm

You guys are a wealth of knowledge. Sounds like I should be looking for a 2014-2015 SV or SL or a 2016 if I can find one. These things are hard to hunt down because I'm looking for such a specific model.

The 2016s still seem too expensive to me. But one advantage would be the 30kwh battery

SageBrush
Posts: 414
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Newbie: Range Questions 34 mile one way commute

Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:47 pm

I think you have two reasonable alternatives if your heart is set on a LEAF:

1. 24 kWh battery in good shape and charging at work
2. 30 kWh battery without work charging

(2) is probably a lot less expensive than you guess. Regional incentives pop up across the country that bring the cost down to below $15k for a new car. Figure on adding $1000 to ship the car to you. For example:
https://smartchargeamerica.com/nissan-leaf-group-buy/.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

Reddy
Posts: 1313
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:09 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: Newbie: Range Questions 34 mile one way commute

Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:36 pm

OP: I have little to add, except, listen closely to all of this advice. I've been reading this site for over six years and the advice that you've been given is absolutely sound. Bottom line: Get it in writing, pay for the electricity, or go with 30 KWh battery SV or SL. Otherwise you'll regret it, may be not this year or next, but in 3-4 years.
Reddy
2011 SL; 10 bar, 48.82 AHr; 35,000 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

Evoforce
Posts: 590
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: Newbie: Range Questions 34 mile one way commute

Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:38 am

My suggestions: 1-5 with 1 being the most expensive...

1. Bolt with QC. Because I want one with 200 mile range, and the battery has active thermal management.
2. 2016 Leaf with QC and 30kWh with QC. Because it has the longest battery warranty for Leaf.
4. Leaf with 8 bars that qualifies for new battery under warranty, now. They are out there believe it or not.
5. Leaf with low 10 bar that has at least 9 month minimum time left on warranty AND we can run some diagnostic here in the VALLEY for 7ish months. After testing, car qualifies for a new battery.

I realize that you currently only have one QC listed in your area, but the world is a changing! Good luck on choosing your next car!
2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi. 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi. on 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.

2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi. 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 miles) Now 35,485 mi.

Return to “New Members & Newbie Questions”