thebard
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:14 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Mar 2017
Location: Southern California

New owner with some longevity questions

Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:51 pm

Hi all,

Long-time lurker, first-time poster, and proud owner of a new (to me) 2013 SV in brilliant silver. Have been wanting to go electric for awhile, and I can say after driving the Leaf for almost a month, I cannot see myself going back to an ICE in the foreseeable future.

I feel I did my due diligence in researching (including some reading on this forum, thank you all), and knowing what to look for in terms of features and "must-haves". I think I got a real decent price considering the options and mileage (36k at purchase). I am, of course, concerned about the battery long-term. I did not have LeafSpy when I walked into the dealership (I do now), but the capacity meter on the dash was down one bar. A couple weeks of driving and it dropped a second bar. The SOH in LeafSpy is reported at just over 76%.

Realistically, on a day-to-day basis I won't need a whole lot of range; I drive just 8 miles round trip to work, southern Los Angeles County, and if the wife's gas guzzler is in the shop it's 24 miles round trip to drive her. She & I took the Leaf up to Castaic (with a top-off as we got to the Valley), to scope out some real estate for family, no problems... last leg we charged in Canyon Country & got back home with plenty to spare. I typically trickle charge a couple times a week to 80% and I never let it get down to turtle, so I don't really know my max range, but by extrapolating it seems 60-70 miles would be realistic (I typically hit 3.9 miles/kw, so at 76% SOH that works out about right, or at least at the low end of that I guess).

My question: Looking forward to (hopefully) several enjoyable years out of this car, what can I expect as far as degradation? Honestly I won't be shattered if it drops a bit, though obviously it would be nice to at least maintain the level of performance I have now. But for the sake of planning, how fast have previous owners seen the capacity drop over time/mileage? If family moves to Castaic or Antelope Valley in five years or so, will we be looking at taking the fossil fuel burner up to visit?
2013 SV --- QC / Navigation --- Brilliant Silver

thimel
Posts: 127
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:10 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Jun 2011
Location: SF bay area

Re: New owner with some longevity questions

Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:17 pm

The first capacity bar corresponds to about a 15% loss of capacity. Each subsequent one is about 6%.
Rate of loss depends critically on temperature. In the LA area a small fraction of people lost 4 bars in five years and hence got the battery replaced free under warranty. Most took a bit longer than that. So roughly the loss is 4-6% per year.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 6940
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: New owner with some longevity questions

Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:20 pm

Look at the build date on the driver's side door sill. I suspect that your car was built between January and March of 2013. If this is the case, then you can expect to lose capacity at the same rate as an '11 or '12 Leaf. The reason? They seem to have used the older battery chemistry for the first three months of 2013, despite using a different case for the US-built cars. Starting with April builds, they used a more degradation-resistant chemistry.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

thebard
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:14 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Mar 2017
Location: Southern California

Re: New owner with some longevity questions

Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:44 pm

Yeh, February '13.
I looked at Nissan's warranty info, and also had the car to a dealer last week for the battery checkup (the printout is pretty useless, btw, pretty much just tells you the capacity bars).

I've also seen that some VINs are ineligible... how do I make sure mine is covered, if it comes to that?
2013 SV --- QC / Navigation --- Brilliant Silver

LeftieBiker
Posts: 6940
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: New owner with some longevity questions

Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:53 pm

Nissan can tell you if the car is eligible, but it probably is - I don't know if 2013 owners had the opt out option, but not many took it if they did. The "in service" date is the other thing you need, to determine when the capacity warranty ends, time-wise. So it's a mixed bag for you: the car will lose bars much faster than a later build, but it may also quality for a free new pack. So you have to decide if you want to keep that pack as cool as possible, or as hot (and as full) as Nissan allows...
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

thebard
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:14 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Mar 2017
Location: Southern California

Re: New owner with some longevity questions

Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:59 pm

Haha, well... I'd rather just enjoy driving it without having to worry about it! I haven't driven thousands of cars in my life, but several, and it's the most enjoyable ride I've owned to date (it's the first time I've actually been excited about a car since my Mustang convertible...).

But having to plunk down $5k for a new battery would definitely sap some of the enjoyment out of the experience...
2013 SV --- QC / Navigation --- Brilliant Silver

Reddy
Posts: 1419
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:09 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: New owner with some longevity questions

Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:13 pm

Drive the hell out of it, accerate to the maximum, drive it on the freeway as fast and as much as you can. Charge to 100%, discharge to turtle, rinse and repeat. Get that battery replacement with 8 bars before 60,000 mi. Please vindicate me, since I won't get the battery warranty replacement.
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 46.44 AHr; 40,067 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

cwerdna
Gold Member
Posts: 7071
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: New owner with some longevity questions

Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:21 pm

thebard wrote:I've also seen that some VINs are ineligible... how do I make sure mine is covered, if it comes to that?

There shouldn't be any '13+ VINs ineligible unless they're salvage titles, have ever been declared a total loss or there's evidence of an odometer rollback. If salvage or totaled, then you basically have no warranties.

The Klee settlement (viewtopic.php?f=27&t=18905 many/most links are broken now :() was for '11 and '12 Leafs. There was viewtopic.php?t=17045 if someone had opted out. There was later some possibility to opt back in. I never followed closely since I never had an '11 or '12.

Yep, '13 Leafs build prior to 4/2013 seem to have crap batteries, as bad as the '11s and '12s. It's unknown when the switch over exactly happened.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

thebard
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:14 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Mar 2017
Location: Southern California

Re: New owner with some longevity questions

Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:31 pm

Reddy wrote:Drive the hell out of it, accerate to the maximum, drive it on the freeway as fast and as much as you can. Charge to 100%, discharge to turtle, rinse and repeat. Get that battery replacement with 8 bars before 60,000 mi. Please vindicate me, since I won't get the battery warranty replacement.


Well, maybe not absolutely as fast as I can, made that mistake in my Mustang (and btw, the troopers on the 14 drive Mustangs too... or did, when I got pulled over years ago...)!

The Leaf isn't meant to be the car I retire in, but I'd like to enjoy it for a few years at least (plus, I kinda need it to get me around town). I was expecting to feel good about driving with no emissions, and about having a machine with lower overall maintenance needs. But I wasn't really ready for the "other" perks: It's the first car I've had with keyless entry... Bluetooth audio... built-in navigation (as outdated as the tech in the Leaf may be now)... Not to mention driving by every gas station ever, and preferred pricing plans on the charging network, and HOV lanes...
2013 SV --- QC / Navigation --- Brilliant Silver

thebard
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:14 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Mar 2017
Location: Southern California

Re: New owner with some longevity questions

Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:33 pm

cwerdna wrote:There shouldn't be any '13+ VINs ineligible unless they're salvage titles, have ever been declared a total loss or there's evidence of an odometer rollback.


Thanks for the info, it's good to know, at least there's that.
2013 SV --- QC / Navigation --- Brilliant Silver

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