New owner with some longevity questions

Hi all,

Long-time lurker, first-time poster, and proud owner of a new (to me) 2013 SV in brilliant silver. Have been wanting to go electric for awhile, and I can say after driving the Leaf for almost a month, I cannot see myself going back to an ICE in the foreseeable future.

I feel I did my due diligence in researching (including some reading on this forum, thank you all), and knowing what to look for in terms of features and "must-haves". I think I got a real decent price considering the options and mileage (36k at purchase). I am, of course, concerned about the battery long-term. I did not have LeafSpy when I walked into the dealership (I do now), but the capacity meter on the dash was down one bar. A couple weeks of driving and it dropped a second bar. The SOH in LeafSpy is reported at just over 76%.

Realistically, on a day-to-day basis I won't need a whole lot of range; I drive just 8 miles round trip to work, southern Los Angeles County, and if the wife's gas guzzler is in the shop it's 24 miles round trip to drive her. She & I took the Leaf up to Castaic (with a top-off as we got to the Valley), to scope out some real estate for family, no problems... last leg we charged in Canyon Country & got back home with plenty to spare. I typically trickle charge a couple times a week to 80% and I never let it get down to turtle, so I don't really know my max range, but by extrapolating it seems 60-70 miles would be realistic (I typically hit 3.9 miles/kw, so at 76% SOH that works out about right, or at least at the low end of that I guess).

My question: Looking forward to (hopefully) several enjoyable years out of this car, what can I expect as far as degradation? Honestly I won't be shattered if it drops a bit, though obviously it would be nice to at least maintain the level of performance I have now. But for the sake of planning, how fast have previous owners seen the capacity drop over time/mileage? If family moves to Castaic or Antelope Valley in five years or so, will we be looking at taking the fossil fuel burner up to visit?

The first capacity bar corresponds to about a 15% loss of capacity. Each subsequent one is about 6%.
Rate of loss depends critically on temperature. In the LA area a small fraction of people lost 4 bars in five years and hence got the battery replaced free under warranty. Most took a bit longer than that. So roughly the loss is 4-6% per year.

Look at the build date on the driver's side door sill. I suspect that your car was built between January and March of 2013. If this is the case, then you can expect to lose capacity at the same rate as an '11 or '12 Leaf. The reason? They seem to have used the older battery chemistry for the first three months of 2013, despite using a different case for the US-built cars. Starting with April builds, they used a more degradation-resistant chemistry.

Yeh, February '13.
I looked at Nissan's warranty info, and also had the car to a dealer last week for the battery checkup (the printout is pretty useless, btw, pretty much just tells you the capacity bars).

I've also seen that some VINs are ineligible... how do I make sure mine is covered, if it comes to that?

Nissan can tell you if the car is eligible, but it probably is - I don't know if 2013 owners had the opt out option, but not many took it if they did. The "in service" date is the other thing you need, to determine when the capacity warranty ends, time-wise. So it's a mixed bag for you: the car will lose bars much faster than a later build, but it may also quality for a free new pack. So you have to decide if you want to keep that pack as cool as possible, or as hot (and as full) as Nissan allows...

Haha, well... I'd rather just enjoy driving it without having to worry about it! I haven't driven thousands of cars in my life, but several, and it's the most enjoyable ride I've owned to date (it's the first time I've actually been excited about a car since my Mustang convertible...).

But having to plunk down $5k for a new battery would definitely sap some of the enjoyment out of the experience...

Drive the hell out of it, accerate to the maximum, drive it on the freeway as fast and as much as you can. Charge to 100%, discharge to turtle, rinse and repeat. Get that battery replacement with 8 bars before 60,000 mi. Please vindicate me, since I won't get the battery warranty replacement.

thebard said:

I've also seen that some VINs are ineligible... how do I make sure mine is covered, if it comes to that?

Click to expand...

There shouldn't be any '13+ VINs ineligible unless they're salvage titles, have ever been declared a total loss or there's evidence of an odometer rollback. If salvage or totaled, then you basically have no warranties.

The Klee settlement (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=18905 many/most links are broken now ) was for '11 and '12 Leafs. There was http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=17045 if someone had opted out. There was later some possibility to opt back in. I never followed closely since I never had an '11 or '12.

Yep, '13 Leafs build prior to 4/2013 seem to have crap batteries, as bad as the '11s and '12s. It's unknown when the switch over exactly happened.

Reddy said:

Drive the hell out of it, accerate to the maximum, drive it on the freeway as fast and as much as you can. Charge to 100%, discharge to turtle, rinse and repeat. Get that battery replacement with 8 bars before 60,000 mi. Please vindicate me, since I won't get the battery warranty replacement.

Click to expand...

Well, maybe not absolutely as fast as I can, made that mistake in my Mustang (and btw, the troopers on the 14 drive Mustangs too... or did, when I got pulled over years ago...)!

The Leaf isn't meant to be the car I retire in, but I'd like to enjoy it for a few years at least (plus, I kinda need it to get me around town). I was expecting to feel good about driving with no emissions, and about having a machine with lower overall maintenance needs. But I wasn't really ready for the "other" perks: It's the first car I've had with keyless entry... Bluetooth audio... built-in navigation (as outdated as the tech in the Leaf may be now)... Not to mention driving by every gas station ever, and preferred pricing plans on the charging network, and HOV lanes...

cwerdna said:

There shouldn't be any '13+ VINs ineligible unless they're salvage titles, have ever been declared a total loss or there's evidence of an odometer rollback.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, it's good to know, at least there's that.

Yep, '13 Leafs build prior to 4/2013 seem to have crap batteries, as bad as the '11s and '12s. It's unknown when the switch over exactly happened.

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We haven't seen any fast-degrading 4/13 builds, and the one or two early builds we have seen that didn't degrade fast were January builds, IIRC. Everything points to April 1st 2013 as the switchover date, although I guess it could be something like the last week (or day) of March.

You don't have to run the car hard, Bard. Just keep the pack warm and full. If it has QC and you have a DC Fast Charge station near you, use it often, and more than once in the same day when you can. Don't use the charge to 80% option and make sure the pack is full when not in use, as much as you can. Park it in the sun and blast the A/C when you get back in, if necessary. Just don't exceed 140F (IIRC) or physically abuse the pack. It sounds like you won't have to worry much about going over 60,000 miles, but make sure that you don't...

So the CarFax says (abridged version):

2/9/13 manufactured
3/5/13 offered for sale
3/8/13 pre-delivery inspection
3/18/13 vehicle serviced
6/6/13 vehicle serviced, 12 mi
7/14/13 titled or registered as personal lease vehicle
7/15/13 battery charged/tire pressure/safety inspection, 13 mi
8/14/13 title issued or updated, first owner reported, titled or registered as personal lease vehicle, 35 mi

Which date would determine the warranty?

It should be the last, latest date. The warranty starts when the first owner "takes delivery" of the newly titled car.

LeftieBiker said:

It should be the last, latest date. The warranty starts when the first owner "takes delivery" of the newly titled car.

Click to expand...

Well, that's good news, looks like I'm covered into August of next year anyway. Thank you all for the advice and input, will let you know how it goes.

Either way, I'm loving this car. I have actually started not hating driving in LA again! Had the electrician in yesterday for a quote on EVSE installation (DWP offers a $500 rebate here)...

thebard said:

So the CarFax says (abridged version):

2/9/13 manufactured
3/5/13 offered for sale
3/8/13 pre-delivery inspection
3/18/13 vehicle serviced
6/6/13 vehicle serviced, 12 mi
7/14/13 titled or registered as personal lease vehicle
7/15/13 battery charged/tire pressure/safety inspection, 13 mi
8/14/13 title issued or updated, first owner reported, titled or registered as personal lease vehicle, 35 mi

Which date would determine the warranty?

Click to expand...

The warranty starts on the in-service date, which is the date on the Nissan sales documents. It is going to be sometime between 3/8/13 and 7/14/13. Call the Nissan EV line (877-NO-GAS-EV) with the VIN number and confirm the in-service date.

7/14/2013 is likely the in-service date as that's when the car was officially titled. The August date is "title issued OR UPDATED" which could mean that is when the DMV actually created a file in their system; in California that can take up to 90 days, though most people get their license plates in 2-4 weeks.

Yes, that's right. My mistake. The title gets reported after the owner/lessee takes possession of the car.

You guys called it... just spoke top a rep and they told me basically the same thing, capacity good until 7/14/18 or 60k, li-ion defects/workmanship until 7/14/21 or 100k.

I might be in ok shape, whadaya think? I'm not gonna stress either way, but if I'm really at 76% SOH with 15 months to go, including some summer months... I've seen estimates on the forum regarding how the SOH actually translates to capacity bars on the dash, but who knows, Nissan could have programmed that last bar to hold on for dear life!

Thanks for all the advice, wish me luck.

The evidence indicates that Nissan has, indeed, programmed the 9th bar to stay for as long as possible.

How much does the SOH in LeafSpy typically fluctuate? After another week & another road trip, it's now reading 78%.