TheDon
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:05 pm
Delivery Date: 02 Apr 2017
Location: Central FL

Considering a leaf

Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:15 pm

Hi everybody!

I'm looking at a CPO 2016 leaf with the 30kWh battery and it's a killer price. If you can use the googles you can probably find it so I'll just leave it at that. :D

I've had all sorts of cars since I was 14 (and I'm only 28 now). I've had everything from a Delorean to a '64 beetle. (Currently restoring the beetle and thinking of an electric drivetrain)

But my main automotive hobby has been vintage Mercedes diesels. I have had one since I was 14. My wife currently drives a 300D turbo and I have a non turbo eurospec 300D manuals everything. My daily is a Honda Element (best car I've ever had). Anyways, I'm looking at a leaf to replace her old Mercedes. It's not the best Mercedes I've dealt with and I'm tired of playing mechanic. I can do that with my beetle and the Element is in good shape. Plus whenever a small human (baby) comes
Along soon ish (not pregnant ) it would probably be safer in the Element or leaf than a 32 year old diesel sedan.

So we are going to not be impulsive but talk to our credit union about financing for the Leaf. Think about if for a week and then do something. I'm feeling like we are going to get a leaf. We'd love a tesla but I can't swig the 55k for a CPO S.
I'm done rambling now. I'm going to go lurk and read about these cool cars.

cwerdna
Gold Member
Posts: 6550
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Considering a leaf

Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:26 pm

Welcome!
TheDon wrote:I'm looking at a CPO 2016 leaf with the 30kWh battery and it's a killer price. If you can use the googles you can probably find it so I'll just leave it at that. :D

Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

What are your daily driving needs in terms of miles? How much city vs. highway? Will you have the ability to charge at your work/destinations? Leaf may/may not be suitable for you.

By "killer price", can you give us a ballpark? What trim level? Which packages included? It may not be that "killer" if you compare it a brand new one factoring in $7500 Federal tax credit (if you're eligible, any regional incentives (see https://www.choosenissan.com/) and state incentives/rebates (if any).

Do keep in mind resale value in Leafs is terrible and I'd expect them to continue being bad or get worse when we see more affordable 200+ mile range EVs hit the market, including Gen 2 Leaf.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

TheDon
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:05 pm
Delivery Date: 02 Apr 2017
Location: Central FL

Re: Considering a leaf

Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:39 pm

I'm in central FL (updating now). My wife's commute to work is a one mile. She would walk to work but there's no sidewalk or street lights and her work is very energy intense so she would be tired walking home. Sometimes depending on her schedule it can be 10 miles round trip. She usually doesn't drive very far for her usual things (doctor appt, church, etc).

My drive to work is 10 miles each way. My work has two charging locations. For EV's. I can probably use them but they are more for guests that visit, however I rarely see a car plugged in. My wife , again, one mile drive but no charging available yet at her work. I am already putting in an outlet in my garage for a welder so a higher voltage outlet is already available to charge the car at home. I've seen a few charging stations very close to where I live that are probably Level 2? Whatever that means.

Dealership has a few 2016 S trim levels with 24kWh and one 30kWh batteryall with less than 400 miles on the For under 15k with CPO warranties for 8 years or so. The 24kWh cars are around 13k. Going to try and get the 30 kWh equipped car since a friend of mine picked up the other 30kWh car they had last weekend. He's got a Model S and now a Leaf for his wife.

Im not interested in spending 35-38k (minus tax credit) on a leaf. At that point I'd just wait to get an S or buy someone's Model 3 golden ticket.

cwerdna
Gold Member
Posts: 6550
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Considering a leaf

Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:08 pm

20 miles roundtrip on a charge will be no prob for a long while. It'll take quite a while before a Leaf is useless for that w/a "lizard" battery, one supposedly more heat resistant that began with model year 2015. Your climate is definitely on the warmer side and degradation will likely be MUCH worse than those in say the Seattle or Portland area.
TheDon wrote:I've seen a few charging stations very close to where I live that are probably Level 2? Whatever that means.

Level 2 in the US generally means J1772 at 208 to 240 volts, typically at 16 to 30 amps or so. http://www.sae.org/smartgrid/chargingprimer.pdf may help. PEV probably implies plug-in electric vehicle. Most public L2 charging in the US tends to be capable of 30 amps max.

Use http://www.plugshare.com to find stations near you. You'll want to go to more options and uncheck all plug types except EV Plug (J1772). If you get/care about Leaf w/the quick charge (aka DC fast charge) inlet, the bigger port (CHAdeMO) on the left side, you'll want to include CHAdeMO DC FC.

viewtopic.php?p=433513#p433513 has a pic of my car WITHOUT CHAdeMO inlet and pointer at the end of my reply to a car WITH CHAdeMO.
TheDon wrote:Dealership has a few 2016 S trim levels with 24kWh and one 30kWh batteryall with less than 400 miles on the For under 15k with CPO warranties for 8 years or so. The 24kWh cars are around 13k.

Keep in mind Nissan's CPO warranty doesn't extend the battery capacity warranty which is 5 years/60K miles on 24 kWh cars and 8 years/100K miles on 30 kWh. If you're down to 8 capacity bars out of 12 before the capacity warranty has expired, you're eligible for free replacement.

These wholesale (auction) prices may be food for thought:
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=21244&start=10
viewtopic.php?p=489054#p489054

FWIW, when I was in the market, I found Nissan-franchise dealers had pretty big markups on used Leafs.

BTW, if you're curious, https://owners.nissanusa.com/nowners/na ... nualsGuide will let you d/l the warranty booklets.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

TheDon
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:05 pm
Delivery Date: 02 Apr 2017
Location: Central FL

Re: Considering a leaf

Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:58 pm

Regarding the warranty. It's good that I'm looking at a '16 so I get the most that I can out of the warranty. From what I've read so far Nissan has been pretty good about warranty repairs on these cars. I do live in FL and it does get hot but not as hot as the desert states.

I'll check out plug share and like I mentioned I have a 240v outlet coming soon for a welder so I can get a home EVSE (just learned about those and some other acronyms ) that's a L2 if I wanted to.

The wholesale price for a 2015 looks about right. Dealership I'm looking at has one 2015 car with 350 miles in it listed at 13k so that's a 4K markup so there's some wiggle room there if they want to get rid of it. But I'd like to get a 2016 MY. Aiming for the 30KWh battery car but if it has to be a 24, there is a bronze colored Leaf that will do. Was hoping to find a red but it's whatever.


Just looked on PlugShare and there is a charging station at my wife's parking lot. Has an "EV PLUG"...sweeeeet.

cwerdna
Gold Member
Posts: 6550
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Considering a leaf

Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:15 pm

TheDon wrote: From what I've read so far Nissan has been pretty good about warranty repairs on these cars.

Yes. I would agree.

TheDon wrote:
The wholesale price for a 2015 looks about right. Dealership I'm looking at has one 2015 car with 350 miles in it listed at 13k so that's a 4K markup so there's some wiggle room there if they want to get rid of it.

$4K markup is NUTS. The used car dealer I got my Leaf from (been driving it since July 2015) had only a $1K markup above his cost.

viewtopic.php?p=432095#p432095 has pointers to my used car buying saga. I'd leased a '13 SV w/both packages for 2 years that I returned at end of lease.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

LeftieBiker
Posts: 5920
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Considering a leaf

Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:20 pm

Your 'short trips in Florida' scenario makes you a great candidate to take advantage of an S without the Charge Package. These are the least-desirable Leafs for most people, but for you, if you can get one cheap, one should work great. Remember that these are the cars that get sold last, and bargain seriously for one.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

TheDon
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:05 pm
Delivery Date: 02 Apr 2017
Location: Central FL

Re: Considering a leaf

Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:28 am

I'd say 4K Mark up on a hold over 2016 with 126 mikes isn't nuts but it can be haggled down.

I know my friend was able to knock off $1500 for the leaf he got. Which I can probably do the same.

cwerdna
Gold Member
Posts: 6550
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Considering a leaf

Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:42 am

TheDon wrote:I'm looking at a CPO 2016 leaf with the 30kWh battery and it's a killer price.

BTW, I'm still not sure what's meant by this. What trim? What packages, if any? Approx. ballpark figure? I have no idea if it actually is a good deal or not w/o knowing any of this, given that used EV prices are skewed by at least $7500 right off the bat.

If you can find a leftover new 2016, https://www.choosenissan.com/2016-leaf/ ... uredoffers when I put in a 33601 zip code turns up a $4K incentive (NMAC cash). And new ones are eligible for $7500 Federal tax credit. But, your income would need to be high enough to take full advantage of this. I'd imagine there might be other incentives beyond what's there.

If you work at a business associate of Nissan, you may be able to save some $ on a new Nissan via VPP (https://www.insidenissan.com).

The numbers at viewtopic.php?p=489846#p489846 may help, even though you're not in CA. If I read what he's saying right, a year lease should be $9,695 for total lease payments on a 3 year lease (35 payments * $277). Residual to buy it out at the end is $9k, assuming NMAC/Nissan doesn't give you any discount near lease end. IIRC, NMAC charges at $300 purchase fee at the end, if you wish to buy out your car.

Ignore the $2500 CVRP, that's a CA only rebate (https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/eligible-vehicles) which cannot help you.

Or maybe, one can get the car for $15.5K net before sales tax but after subtracting the $7500 Federal tax credit?

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

TheDon
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:05 pm
Delivery Date: 02 Apr 2017
Location: Central FL

Re: Considering a leaf

Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:07 am

http://www.lokeynissan.com/certified/Ni ... fe2dfc.htm

Getting pictures today from them. It's listed as used. Not New.

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