Considering leaf - so many questions!

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RonSwanson

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2017
Messages
92
I live in Los Angeles. Currently have about a 20 mile round trip commute (if you call that a commute). I was at CarMax over the weekend and saw some used Leafs and was amazed how cheap they were. I am seeing 2013 models with 30k ish miles for 8k or even less in some instances. This blew my mind how cheap. I'm starting to wonder Why they are so cheap? Is it because the batteries have seriously degraded by this point? I would LOVE to be able to buy a car for 8k and pay cash and not have a car payment. I'm coming from a $400+ per month payment so this would be a dream.

I have so many questions I don't even know where to start. I guess I'll start out with a few obvious ones.

1. Would a leaf be ideal for someone with my short commute who has chargers on both ends?

2. Are the prices I saw at carmax legit, meaning these aren't cars on their last legs already?

3. What year / mileage do you recommend I look at if I want the car to last like 3-5 years or more would be great? I'm really just looking at a cheap vehicle that will get me to / from work for the next few years with little issue.

I'll start out with those three questions for now and I'm sure I'll have a lot of follow up questions based on your replies.

Thanks in advance for all your help!
 
1. Yes.

2. Yes.

3. A 2013 built AFTER March of 2013, with 12 bars showing, should be fine for your needs. The entry level S should also work for you, if you need few bells or whistles. For best value, make sure the car has the Charge Package, which adds QC charging and, in the case of the S, a faster onboard charger. Odometer mileage isn't as important as the battery having been kept cool so look at Carfax to find where the car was previously driven, avoiding hot climates like Arizona, SoCal, or Georgia.
 
Hi Ron,
Some great questions! Here's a start, I'm sure you'll find out more as you search these message boards:

1. Would a leaf be ideal for someone with my short commute who has chargers on both ends? - YES! I have a very similar commute (18 miles round trip), and my 2013 SV works perfectly for that, and easily some errands on the way home! If you've got 240v charging on both ends, then this could work as a commuter for many years...

2. Are the prices I saw at carmax legit, meaning these aren't cars on their last legs already?
Yes, those are good prices, but not exceptional.

3. What year / mileage do you recommend I look at if I want the car to last like 3-5 years or more would be great? I'm really just looking at a cheap vehicle that will get me to / from work for the next few years with little issue.
You definitely want a 2013 or newer (they changed the battery chemistry in 2013), I believe you want one that was manufactured after April ofr 2013 (some of the earlier 2013's still use the older battery chemistry).
Although really, with such a short commute, you could probably get by with even a 2011 or 2012!

I would personally try to get one still under the bumper to bumper 36k warranty; I had to replace the head unit/stereo/screen and was glad it was under warranty since that would have been expensive!

welcome to the leaf boards... Marty
 
LeftieBiker said:
1. Yes.

2. Yes.

3. A 2013 built AFTER March of 2013, with 12 bars showing, should be fine for your needs. The entry level S should also work for you, if you need few bells or whistles. For best value, make sure the car has the Charge Package, which adds QC charging and, in the case of the S, a faster onboard charger. Odometer mileage isn't as important as the battery having been kept cool so look at Carfax to find where the car was previously driven, avoiding hot climates like Arizona, SoCal, or Georgia.
For point 3, is the idea to get a car that hasn't been kept so hot since I will be using it in a hot climate? Will it have a short life here in SoCal?
 
martyv said:
Hi Ron,
Some great questions! Here's a start, I'm sure you'll find out more as you search these message boards:

1. Would a leaf be ideal for someone with my short commute who has chargers on both ends? - YES! I have a very similar commute (18 miles round trip), and my 2013 SV works perfectly for that, and easily some errands on the way home! If you've got 240v charging on both ends, then this could work as a commuter for many years...

2. Are the prices I saw at carmax legit, meaning these aren't cars on their last legs already?
Yes, those are good prices, but not exceptional.

3. What year / mileage do you recommend I look at if I want the car to last like 3-5 years or more would be great? I'm really just looking at a cheap vehicle that will get me to / from work for the next few years with little issue.
You definitely want a 2013 or newer (they changed the battery chemistry in 2013), I believe you want one that was manufactured after April ofr 2013 (some of the earlier 2013's still use the older battery chemistry).
Although really, with such a short commute, you could probably get by with even a 2011 or 2012!

I would personally try to get one still under the bumper to bumper 36k warranty; I had to replace the head unit/stereo/screen and was glad it was under warranty since that would have been expensive!

welcome to the leaf boards... Marty

Thanks for the advice Marty.

Just to add a bit, I do have a Carista ODB bluetooth adapter that I can take to dealerships with me. I just have no idea what the numbers would tell me haha
 
RonSwanson said:
For point 3, is the idea to get a car that hasn't been kept so hot since I will be using it in a hot climate? Will it have a short life here in SoCal?

With a commute as short of yours, that really doesn't matter. All will be revealed when you get an AHr reading, which will also confirm/deny how many capacity bars are remaining. As was mentioned, you could get just about any Leaf made (2011 on) with at least half it's capacity bars remaining (not that you will find one so bad).
 
For point 3, is the idea to get a car that hasn't been kept so hot since I will be using it in a hot climate? Will it have a short life here in SoCal?

Yes. You want the battery to last as long as possible, so you don't want one that's already seen 3-4 years of hot weather. The other posts about any Leaf working are correct - for now. If you really want to get 5 years of use from a Leaf in your climate, you want as much capacity as possible to start, and you definitely don't want the older battery chemistry used before APRIL of 2013. (The emphasis was for the previous poster who wrote "after April." April 2013 builds are fine - I drive one.)
 
  1. The Leaf is extremely ideal for someone like you who only drives 10 miles per day. You likely won't need to charge at home and at work, either one or the other. If you lived between 30 or so to 60 or so miles from work then you'd want to charge at work and at home.
  2. Prices sounds legit. I got my used 12 bar (great condition battery# 2013 SL #luxury model# with 38k miles for about $9,000 #after Colorado tax rebate.# But there are several 2011's and 12's going for $5,000 to $6,000. $8,000 sounds like a normal price for a good Leaf. A friend of mine picked up a 2013 S #base model# for less than that with 12 bars.
  3. If all your concerned with is your 10 mile round trip then ANY Leaf will work for you. But you'd probably want to go farther at times, wouldn't you? The April 2013's and later have a better battery. But still check battery capacity #bars, Leaf Spy.) Normally 12 bars are great, 11-good, 10-fair, 9-poor, 8 or less-bad. Would you want the CHAdeMO quick port to do a quick charge for longer trips from time to time? Do you use the heater much? If so look to the 2013 and newer SV's and SL's that have heat pumps. Do you like luxuries like backup cameras, leather seats, Carwings, Navigation, cruise control, LED head lights, Bose sound system, 17" rims? S is base, SV is medium luxury and SL is luxury.
 
RonSwanson said:
For point 3, is the idea to get a car that hasn't been kept so hot since I will be using it in a hot climate? Will it have a short life here in SoCal?

It depends where in SoCal you live. If you live near the beach, the battery is going to last longer than if you live in Palmdale.
 
RonDawg said:
RonSwanson said:
For point 3, is the idea to get a car that hasn't been kept so hot since I will be using it in a hot climate? Will it have a short life here in SoCal?

It depends where in SoCal you live. If you live near the beach, the battery is going to last longer than if you live in Palmdale.
My '12 came from Newbury Park CA(suburb of LA I believe) and it's battery is in pretty bad shape :( Of course I have no idea of the previous Leasee's charging strategy, they may have constantly topped it off, letting it sit at a high SOC for days on end....I know it had less than a half a dozen QCs but thousands of L2/L1s. It hasn't really degraded any since I got it over a year ago, but the damage was already done :(
 
Thanks so much for the replies everyone. I think I am starting to get the handle on understanding how to best buy a used Leaf.

I do, unfortunately, live in the hot area of LA (valley). So I will probably put extra strain on the battery.

Based on everything that is known, what kind of real world mileage can I expect out of a full charge on an April '13 model or later S model with say 12 bars? How about 11, or 10? I know the stats say I can get 84 miles but making my daily commute can I expect anywhere near this number on a full charge if it has 12 bars? And how much does the estimated range go down for each bar lost?

And as for using my ODB adapter, what app do I use with this and how can I learn what the numbers mean? And do dealers care if I'm plugging in an ODB adapter while checking out a car?
 
In the summer without heat and marginal wind I'd have no problem with 70+ miles on my '13S with mostly 65mph freeway. With a 80% charage I can do my weekly 60 mile RT. With my '12SL missing 2 bars(the one originally from the LA area) it's more like 60 miles with a 100% charge. In the winter with near constant heat use either can drop 20 miles or more and the '13S will be more comfortable as older than '13 Leafs use liquid based heating, which isn't as efficient and slower to heat.
 
Someone should post a link to Tony's range chart. If you can't or won't use LeafSpy, assume that any 12 bar car you look at is about to drop to 11 bars, so use 11 for the range estimate, and take anything more you get as a free (and temporary) bonus.
 
If you've already got an ODB2 dongle, then install LeafSpy Lite on your phone and make sure it works with your Bluetooth OBD2 dongle. If it works, then purchase LeafSpy Pro.

The important values to review are SOH and AHr. Unfortunately, the jury is still out as to whether LeafSpy can help with checking out the health of a Leaf battery. That's because unscrupulous dealers may have performed a BMS reset and it seems that LeafSpy can't help with that as it just reports what the BMS tells it. The BMS eventually learns the real health of the battery, but by then the new owner is stuck with the car. This is the modern day odometer rollback.

From what I've read, first bar loss seems to happen at around 85% SOH, second bar at about 75% - but there seems to be a lot of variation.

Hope that helps :)
 
LeftieBiker said:
Someone should post a link to Tony's range chart. If you can't or won't use LeafSpy, assume that any 12 bar car you look at is about to drop to 11 bars, so use 11 for the range estimate, and take anything more you get as a free (and temporary) bonus.
Obviously it is ideal to do so, but is it as important to use LeafSpy when purchasing a used 2015?
 
hyperionmark said:
LeftieBiker said:
Someone should post a link to Tony's range chart. If you can't or won't use LeafSpy, assume that any 12 bar car you look at is about to drop to 11 bars, so use 11 for the range estimate, and take anything more you get as a free (and temporary) bonus.
Obviously it is ideal to do so, but is it as important to use LeafSpy when purchasing a used 2015?
A '15 Leaf could be up to 2 1/2 years and if it were constantly topped off, stored full, QC charged when hot, it could easily be almost ready to lose that 1st bar, or down 15% capacity. If you don't use LeafSpy I guess you could just consider a 12 bar a 11 bar car, a 11 bar car a 10 bar car and so on, or you could get Leafspy and actually know the Leaf battery is at 100% or 86% or whatever it is. So my answer is yes, even for a Leaf as new as model year '15(which could be over 2 years old) if you really want to know the battery condition, you really need LeafSpy, or something else to read battery health :) my 2 cents anyway.
 
Agreed, just don't put 100% faith in the SOH value reported by LeafSpy.

To avoid buying a BMS reset Leaf, arrange for an extended test drive. Reset the trip counter, then drive (ideally, in fairly flat terrain & nice weather) until LeafSpy tells you that the SOC has dropped by 25%. Multiply the trip counter reading by 4 to get an estimate of total range. If it's not around 80 miles, yet the SOH is over 90%, then be suspicious
 
LeftieBiker said:
Someone should post a link to Tony's range chart.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293

All '11 to '15 Leafs have a 24 kWh battery as does the '16 S, before the '16 "S 30" was quietly introduced.
 
How would I test if leafspy works with my odb adapter? I don't see a free version on iOS. Only a $20 version.
 
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