BranchingOut
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:19 pm
Delivery Date: 13 Apr 2017

Considering an EV (Leaf SV and others)

Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:56 pm

Hello everyone,

Hi. I've spent a few hours here (fine lots of hours here) and before I forget, http://wiki.mynissanleaf.com/ is down. This site has been a very nice resource to get started on the whole EV aspect. I'm an ICE snob in that arena and I currently have a 6MT Cayman that I love driving at the redline. However, for daily driving, after crunching numbers in Excel for a few hours, it makes sense to drive an EV for daily driving and leave the Cayman for canyon runs over the weekend.

I live in the PNW and my daily commute is around 45-55 miles depending on day. I'm currently digging up your forum literature on 240V, EVSE cable setups, and lease deals. I'm looking at leasing the Leaf SV (2 year lease ideally) and talking to multiple dealerships right now (or rather they won't leave me alone). I'm also considering the Bolt (love the range) but the numbers don't make me happy so far. Why the SV? I want the 30KW battery and Carplay. Hoping that I can only charge once a day at home (8PM-6AM) but worst case scenario, there's a backup car.

As far as leases go, looking at a deal that says 3K down, 195 per month before interest. Going to see what Costco Auto buying discount will add (or rather subtract from) to that lease. May also consider 2016 SV versions if they are "nice enough".

GRA
Posts: 6837
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Considering an EV (Leaf SV and others)

Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:22 pm

BranchingOut wrote:Hello everyone,

Hi. I've spent a few hours here (fine lots of hours here) and before I forget, http://wiki.mynissanleaf.com/ is down. This site has been a very nice resource to get started on the whole EV aspect. I'm an ICE snob in that arena and I currently have a 6MT Cayman that I love driving at the redline. However, for daily driving, after crunching numbers in Excel for a few hours, it makes sense to drive an EV for daily driving and leave the Cayman for canyon runs over the weekend.

I live in the PNW and my daily commute is around 45-55 miles depending on day. I'm currently digging up your forum literature on 240V, EVSE cable setups, and lease deals. I'm looking at leasing the Leaf SV (2 year lease ideally) and talking to multiple dealerships right now (or rather they won't leave me alone). I'm also considering the Bolt (love the range) but the numbers don't make me happy so far. Why the SV? I want the 30KW battery and Carplay. Hoping that I can only charge once a day at home (8PM-6AM) but worst case scenario, there's a backup car.

As far as leases go, looking at a deal that says 3K down, 195 per month before interest. Going to see what Costco Auto buying discount will add (or rather subtract from) to that lease. May also consider 2016 SV versions if they are "nice enough".

If you are buying new, all 2017s including the S come with the 30kWh battery. However for the PNW's climate the heat pump will boost your usable range, and that's only available on the SV and SL, so I'd stick with an SV. You should be fine only charging at home if you have a 30kWh battery, as long as you don't insist on driving the car like your Cayman on your commute! OTOH, if they're available where you are you might want to consider one of the new 35.8kWh e-Golfs, as it will be more of a driver's car than the LEAF (if that matters to you for commuting).
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

BranchingOut
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:19 pm
Delivery Date: 13 Apr 2017

Re: Considering an EV (Leaf SV and others)

Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:44 pm

GRA wrote:However for the PNW's climate the heat pump will boost your usable range, and that's only available on the SV and SL, so I'd stick with an SV. You should be fine only charging at home if you have a 30kWh battery, as long as you don't insist on driving the car like your Cayman on your commute!


Thank you. I didn't know about the heat-pump part. As for the driving style, I usually stay at 5-10 over limit and don't get crazy with speeds on public roads. However I'll need to ease off on the throttle as the instant torque may get addictive :). I'm test driving a few cars in the next few days and curious to know how they handle in both dry and wet conditions and road noise. It'll be a bit of a change from a proper engine behind my ear to experiencing road noise.

I want quieter grippy tires and looking at rotating every ~6K miles. Need to do a bit more research.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 6309
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Considering an EV (Leaf SV and others)

Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:46 pm

The Leaf is different from an ICE car in that steady highway speeds (above 60-65MPH especially) result in worse "fuel" economy than rapid acceleration at low speeds. And, of course, also in that the heater can use almost as much energy as the motor. That's why you want the heatpump-equipped SV or SL. The most cost-effective choice is the SV without the Premium Package (Bose stereo and four camera parking system). These are the last of the SV/SL cars on the lots to sell, and the ones you can most likely get a deal on.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

BranchingOut
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:19 pm
Delivery Date: 13 Apr 2017

Re: Considering an EV (Leaf SV and others)

Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:51 pm

Thanks. I don't want the Premium package around audio or cameras. Do want the CarPlay option so I can listen to streaming sounds of Flat six engine at the redline. I mean music. Leaning towards Leaf now even though I think the Bolt looks miles better as the Leaf is more value for the $ and the interior feels nicer. Things will definitely be more interesting in 1-2 years with the 60KW battery and less ugly look.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 6309
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Considering an EV (Leaf SV and others)

Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:07 pm

I think that Carplay is part of the SV/SL Nav & Entertainment system, but don't know for certain. In three years, if you don't find the Leaf's performance satisfying, there should be off-lease Bolts coming up for sale. Maybe by then they will have fixed the Bolt's seats...
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

Phatcat73
Posts: 418
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:44 pm
Leaf Number: 401511
Location: Buffalo Grove, Il

Re: Considering an EV (Leaf SV and others)

Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:41 am

I don't believe Nissan offers CarPlay. Also in the PNW where it doesn't get too cold and his commute, a 30kw S should suffice.
2016 SV; purchased 20-Jan-17, <5k, 98% SOH; 01-Apr-17
2013 SV; purchased 6-March-13 44k, 81% SOH; 3-Apr-17
2015 S; purchased 29-July-14, moved to AZ Nov-2014, 19k, 83% SOH; 30-Mar-17
(LD storage) 2009 Ford Escape Hybrid 4x2), 101k

jjeff
Posts: 1305
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Considering an EV (Leaf SV and others)

Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:13 am

Phatcat73 wrote:... Also in the PNW where it doesn't get too cold and his commute, a 30kw S should suffice.

I know what your saying but if extending range is important, the heatpump in a warmer(wetter) climate like WA is even more important than a frigid place like MN(my state). You see in a very cold climate(teens or colder) the heatpump and standard S heater draw the same power, mainly in the warmer temps is where the heatpump shines. You also save a lot during defogging, something that I'd imagine you have to do more in WA than MN.
Again if range isn't a big concern(and it sounds like it might not be so much according to the OP) your right, a 30kw S Leaf would probably work just fine, but a SV with it's heatpump could come in handy if your running low on charge and need to defog your windows. Unless your windows frost up(which can happen in sub freezing temps) you can get by without heat in the cold by simply using seat heaters and steering wheel heat but if your windows fog up as can happen in warmer temps, it's a safety issue and you really have no choice other than use defog and therefore heat :)
Note to the OP, I believe?? you may lose rear seat heat on the S model?? on later Leafs, if this is important to you, you'll want to check into it more. This was not a issue on earlier Leafs where rear seat was standard on all Leafs, regardless of trim level.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

GRA
Posts: 6837
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Considering an EV (Leaf SV and others)

Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:26 pm

BranchingOut wrote:
GRA wrote:However for the PNW's climate the heat pump will boost your usable range, and that's only available on the SV and SL, so I'd stick with an SV. You should be fine only charging at home if you have a 30kWh battery, as long as you don't insist on driving the car like your Cayman on your commute!


Thank you. I didn't know about the heat-pump part. As for the driving style, I usually stay at 5-10 over limit and don't get crazy with speeds on public roads. However I'll need to ease off on the throttle as the instant torque may get addictive :). I'm test driving a few cars in the next few days and curious to know how they handle in both dry and wet conditions and road noise. It'll be a bit of a change from a proper engine behind my ear to experiencing road noise.

I want quieter grippy tires and looking at rotating every ~6K miles. Need to do a bit more research.

Just be aware of subtracting some amount of range for grippier tires - I know there have been posts on that subject. You should have plenty of range for your needs either way, but if you opt for an S without the heat pump you may have issues in a few edge cases. If you're leasing new for only a couple of years, in the PNW climate (assuming you're west of the Cascades) it shouldn't be an issue, but I do think the SV/SL's heat pump provides enough of an additional range benefit in mild climates like that or here in the S.F. Bay Area that it's worth having, even though you'll probably be okay range-wise with an S. Having the heat pump might well be the deciding factor if you ever contemplate buying out the lease. If you were to opt for a used 24kWh LEAF I'd consider the heat pump mandatory, as you might already be pushing the range on a degraded battery.

HTH, and do try the e-Golf if available, as it will definitely feel more like what you're used to, although you almost certainly won't be able to get as good as deal as you can on a 2017 LEAF, as the latter staggers towards the finish line of this generation and Nissan discounts them like crazy.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

4CloverLeaf
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:23 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Mar 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Considering an EV (Leaf SV and others)

Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:53 pm

You sound to be in a pretty similar boat to me. At the end of March I bought a 2017 Leaf SV which shocked everyone who knows me but the number really do make sense. I am coming from a heavily modified BMW 135i and love a small RWD car that I can throw around. I have worked as a driving skills coach and simply love cars and going fast. However, I came to realize that the 135i I had modified was not the best decision for a 50 mile daily commute in traffic and I decided I needed a commuter car that was comfortable, quite, efficient, and preferably cheap. The Leaf actually seems to be an excellent choice based off this criteria and I am feeling good about the decision so far. With the incentives and tax credits, I was able to get the car for exactly $13,505 out the door, including all sales tax, delivery, tax credits, etc. If I keep the car for five years and am able to sell the Leaf for above $7,500 the the car will pay for itself in fuel savings for me. With a similar commute, I assume the numbers will work well for you as well.

The Leaf is not going to be as fun to drive as the Caymen, People make a big deal about the torque in the electric cars but the Leaf is a slow car no mater what some people will claim. It does take over 10 seconds to get from 0-60. The truth is that most people never floor the gas pedal of their cars as they drive in traffic and never feel how fast their cars really are. People simply don't need or use the car's maximum amount of power. I have personally done a 3.9 second 0-60mph in my 135i at a track but do you know what that looks like on the streets? It looks like I am going to hurt someone or get arrested. I never flog my 135i unless I am on a track or I am confident nobody else is around, which is rare and never really needed. Based off your choice of the Cayman, I assume you enjoy going around the turns quickly as opposed to going in a straight line. This is why I think you wanting stickier tires is a good idea and I would also recommend it if you have the range. It does sound like your range would decrease with the sticky tires, however, your tires are your only connection to the road. They make a huge difference and I am confident that with better tires you could still have plenty of fun in a Leaf on the roads. In my simple mind, low rolling resistance also means less traction to turn or stop your car. Again, most people don't drive at the limits of their cars, so a little extra range makes sense for them. Based off your prior selection of the Cayman, I am guessing you would like the Leaf's limits to be higher and better rubber would be the best way to raise those limits.

Good luck with your decision. I personally think that I made a good decision to improve 99% of the driving I really do in a city with the Leaf instead of a sports car. Is driving a Leaf as fun as a sports car? No, but neitheris going to work and yet I still go to work most of the time. I herd Jay Leno say before that he thought electric cars will be similar to how internal combustion engines replaced horses for daily transportation. Soon enough, everyone will drive electric cars to and from work and some people will also own an ICE car for recreation like some people today still have horses.

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