hackdroot
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:54 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Apr 2017
Location: East Bay Area, CA

Re: 52 mile round trip commute possible/practical on '13-'14 SV

Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:12 pm

Phatcat73 wrote:You're in CA. Lease or buy a new vehicle and get the $2500 state rebate. This way you'll have peace of mind regarding range, warranty and degradation. Deals are hot if you shop around.


I would love a new leaf. Unfortunately, a new car will add several hundred dollars to my monthly obligations in payments and insurance. This is not an option. I was banking on breaking even on my costs by eliminating my $200+ monthly fuel bill and adding a ~200 payment at 36 mos. :(
2013 Leaf SL (12/2013) + Premium package 31,000 miles - 58.8AHr - 89%SOH

GRA
Posts: 6840
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: 52 mile round trip commute possible/practical on '13-'14 SV

Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:26 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:You can find slightly used '16 30kwh SV models for about $17k. A used '16 S30 would be even less. That would be your best bet, unless charging at work will be certain in the near future. It isn't that you can't do that commute on a 24kwh leaf, it's just that you'll come to hate doing it over time.
+1. The round trip can be done, but there will be times when it's a royal pain, especially with strong headwinds. Workplace charging will eliminate any issues. For the Bay Area's mild climate, I'd definitely recommend an SV/SL with the heat pump (comes on all 2013+ SV/SL), as you'll never need to use the resistive heater which really sucks energy.

BTW, for the OP, is that 1,000' foot max. elevation Altamont Pass (1,009')? That would match with the 105 deg. high temp you quoted (although I do recall Livermore and/or Dublin hitting 111 a few years back).
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

hackdroot
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:54 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Apr 2017
Location: East Bay Area, CA

Re: 52 mile round trip commute possible/practical on '13-'14 SV

Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:33 pm

GRA wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:You can find slightly used '16 30kwh SV models for about $17k. A used '16 S30 would be even less. That would be your best bet, unless charging at work will be certain in the near future. It isn't that you can't do that commute on a 24kwh leaf, it's just that you'll come to hate doing it over time.
+1. The round trip can be done, but there will be times when it's a royal pain, especially with strong headwinds. Workplace charging will eliminate any issues. For the Bay Area's mild climate, I'd definitely recommend an SV/SL with the heat pump (comes on all 2013+ SV/SL), as you'll never need to use the resistive heater which really sucks energy.


I almost never use the heat in any of my cars to be honest.

LeftieBiker wrote:BTW, for the OP, is that 1,000' foot max. elevation Altamont Pass (1,009')? That would match with the 105 deg. high temp you quoted (although I do recall Livermore and/or Dublin hitting 111 a few years back).


Close, Vasco road into livermore.
2013 Leaf SL (12/2013) + Premium package 31,000 miles - 58.8AHr - 89%SOH

alozzy
Posts: 461
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017

Re: 52 mile round trip commute possible/practical on '13-'14 SV

Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:37 pm

@hackdroot

Based on your data from the EV trip planner, your one way trip looks easy. In particular, the energy requirement is 6.4kWh, which is about 30% of a 24kWh pack. That appears to be the one way trip with the net elevation gain, so the trip back will be even less.

On the EV trip planner site, just to the right of the "Route Thru Superchargers" button, there's a vertical double arrow which lets you reverse the starting and ending points. You can use that to run the calculation for the return trip too.

As long as the total energy used for both legs of the trip is <20 kWh, then you should be able to do the trip with no problem.

I would encourage you to run a simulation on colder external temps though, and with a headwind for the uphill trip, so you can estimate the worst case scenario. Also, account for a few years down the road, when your usuable pack energy might be 15 or 16 kWh.

Post back your return trip estimates from the EV trip planner site if you like, but based on what you posted (uphill trip) I think you'll easily do this trip even in winter temps and less than ideal conditions.
Last edited by alozzy on Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Canadian with a US 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Big grin, enjoying my first BEV :D

speedski97
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:44 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Dec 2013
Location: Whittier Ca

Re: 52 mile round trip commute possible/practical on '13-'14 SV

Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:52 pm

There are a few leases for $100 a month.

http://ev-vin.blogspot.com/

GRA
Posts: 6840
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: 52 mile round trip commute possible/practical on '13-'14 SV

Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:55 pm

hackdroot wrote:
GRA wrote: +1. The round trip can be done, but there will be times when it's a royal pain, especially with strong headwinds. Workplace charging will eliminate any issues. For the Bay Area's mild climate, I'd definitely recommend an SV/SL with the heat pump (comes on all 2013+ SV/SL), as you'll never need to use the resistive heater which really sucks energy.

I almost never use the heat in any of my cars to be honest.

Then seat heaters will do you, and the non-heat-pump equipped versions seem to be a bit more efficient when running the air conditioner. I don't remember if the 2013 S came with seat heaters, but ISTR that the steering wheel heater was missing. Pre-2013 SV/SLs will likely have batteries that are too degraded to make the round trip easily.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

alozzy
Posts: 461
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017

Re: 52 mile round trip commute possible/practical on '13-'14 SV

Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:58 pm

FYI, if you can pickup a used 2013 SV (April manu date or later) for around $8000 then your car loan payments on a 4 year would be around $180 or so. On a 5 year, about $145

You mentioned you have a '99 Acura 99 TL which likely gets a combined fuel mileage of 20mpg. Sounds like the 52 mile trip is your daily commute, so that's roughly 1100 miles per month. At $3/gallon, your monthly gas cost for the Acura is about $165.

Electric charges for the Leaf for the same 1100 miles would be derived from this formula: [22 days x kWh (for your daily commute)] x 0.11/kWh - probably about $30 a month.

So, your net savings (gas vs electric) is $125 per month, so a monthly loan payment of at least $145 isn't quite offset. However, you're very likely to save $$$ on maintenance costs with a much younger car, not to mention an EV like the Leaf.

Obviously, once the loan is paid off, you'll save $125 every month thereafter. If gas prices should rise over the next few years, then you'll save even more
Canadian with a US 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Big grin, enjoying my first BEV :D

alozzy
Posts: 461
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017

Re: 52 mile round trip commute possible/practical on '13-'14 SV

Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:09 pm

For interest sake, my gas prices are way higher and we use to drive a 2003 Hyundai Santa Fe that got around 14mpg combined. Vancouver (Canada) gas prices are about $4.20/gallon right now.

Doing your same commute in our Santa Fe, we would have been paying $330 per month. For us, it was a total no brainer to buy a US Leaf as we actually spent more like $425 every month on gas. We only recently realized we could import a Leaf and save a ton of money ($6K) compared to buying one in Canada.

Love the Leaf, but love the fact that we save >$375 every month now by driving an EV.
Canadian with a US 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Big grin, enjoying my first BEV :D

VitaminJ
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:46 am
Delivery Date: 07 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 415775
Location: Morrison, CO
Contact: YouTube

Re: 52 mile round trip commute possible/practical on '13-'14 SV

Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:19 pm

I do 70 miles minimum every day during the week on my '13 on a single charge as long as it's 50F or warmer.
2013 Ocean Blue SV w/ QC and LED

PM me about converting your 120v EVSE to 240v

hackdroot
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:54 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Apr 2017
Location: East Bay Area, CA

Re: 52 mile round trip commute possible/practical on '13-'14 SV

Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:38 pm

alozzy wrote:......

Post back your return trip estimates from the EV trip planner site if you like, but based on what you posted (uphill trip) I think you'll easily do this trip even in winter temps and less than ideal conditions.


TO WORK:
Distance 26.2 miles
Driving Time 0:41
Charging Time 0:00
Total Trip Time 0:41
Total Energy Used 6.4 kWh (6.8 kWh)
26 RM (28 RM)
Average Efficiency 246 Wh/mile (259 Wh/mile)
Net Elevation Change 548 feet

TO HOME:
Distance 26.5 miles
Driving Time 0:42
Charging Time 0:00
Total Trip Time 0:42
Total Energy Used 5.2 kWh
21 RM
Average Efficiency 195 Wh/mile
Net Elevation Change -548 feet


speedski97 wrote:There are a few leases for $100 a month.

http://ev-vin.blogspot.com/


Thanks for the link. :)

alozzy wrote:FYI, if you can pickup a used 2013 SV (April manu date or later) for around $8000 then your car loan payments on a 4 year would be around $180 or so. On a 5 year, about $145

You mentioned you have a '99 Acura 99 TL which likely gets a combined fuel mileage of 20mpg. Sounds like the 52 mile trip is your daily commute, so that's roughly 1100 miles per month. At $3/gallon, your monthly gas cost for the Acura is about $165.


Tranny issues, lower that estimate to 18mpg average, plus the 3.2 VTEC uses premium gasoline (plus I often sit in a LOT of slow traffic). Estimate to repair the oil leak and tranny are $3700 - $5800. It's not if the tranny finally dies, it's when.

alozzy wrote:FYI
Electric charges for the Leaf for the same 1100 miles would be derived from this formula: [22 days x kWh (for your daily commute)] x 0.11/kWh - probably about $30 a month.


I currently am generating a surplus, so it's money shuffling. Plus the cost of charging at work is $10 a month when I do get a spot.

alozzy wrote:Obviously, once the loan is paid off, you'll save $125 every month thereafter. If gas prices should rise over the next few years, then you'll save even more


I hate debt and currently have none outside of mortgage. It will be paid off early. :)
2013 Leaf SL (12/2013) + Premium package 31,000 miles - 58.8AHr - 89%SOH

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