stea1th
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 6:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Feb 2017
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

Need advice for buying used Leaf S in ARIZONA

Sat May 06, 2017 7:59 am

Hey guys GREAT forum here, lots of valuable information, history and experiences. I live in AZ, looking to purchase my first EV to get Arizona’s AFV, a.k.a. “blue cloud”, license plate for carpool lane access. I have other ICE vehicle for weekends, long trips, etc. EV is additional vehicle for commuting. My commute distance is 15 miles each way. 2 miles flat surface streets + 11 miles freeway (AZ 101) + 2 miles flat surface streets. Rush hour traffic is making me C-R-A-Z-Y :evil: and can add 10-30 minutes to my otherwise 25 minute commute. Want to get advice on strategy for buying used, 2013-15, Leaf S. I tend to see 2 categories of Leaf's offered for sale here in AZ which I suspect are mostly vehicles coming off lease. There are those which have lived their whole life here in AZ, 25K-45K miles, 1-owner, 9-10 battery capacity bars showing on dash, maybe new tires, maybe new 12-volt battery. The other category are Leaf’s coming in from cooler climates, mostly the bay-area, 25K-45K miles, 1-owner, 11-12 battery capacity bars showing on dash, original tires, original 12-volt battery. Is the best strategy to go for a 9-bar AZ car with say 1/2 to 1/3 of its battery capacity warranty remaining (mileage or time) and HOPE to get a replacement lizard battery under warranty from Nissan --OR-- go for a 12-bar out-of-state car with the lowest mileage and no hope of getting a battery replacement from Nissan??? Prices seems to be about the same, sometimes AZ cars are less expensive. Complicating things is that dealers don’t want to provide recent battery health reports or copies of the Annual EV Battery Usage Reports which are required per the Leaf warranty information booklet in the MAINTENANCE, DATA ACCESS, AND RECORDS section or any kind of confirmation in writing or addendum in the sales contract that the battery capacity warranty is still valid. The typical response I get from dealers is that after dropping to 8-bars on the dash, Nissan needs to evaluate the battery to confirm there hasn’t been any ‘abuse’ and then decide IF they will repair, recondition or replace the battery. Nobody seems able to define what ‘abuse’ means in the context of making a battery replacement decision. Could use in hot AZ climate be ‘abuse’? Could previous owner driving 16K miles/year be ‘abuse’? What if previous owner got 1-stars on Nissan battery inspections or skipped the inspections altogether? Could there be other data lurking in the vehicle’s computers or maintenance records which Nissan could dig up, call ‘abuse’ and deny a battery warranty replacement claim? I even called Nissan’s 1-877-NO GAS EV hotline with some VINs and they could confirm warranty end dates over the phone but couldn’t provide me anything in writing that the battery capacity warranty was actually still valid. There seem to be many “if’s” and uncertainties with the battery capacity warranty… am I wrong about that?? Thanks for feedback on buying a used Leaf S in Arizona!!

p.s. I plan to use L1 charging from standard 120V outlet at home overnight. No EV charging available at work during the day, at least for now.
Last edited by stea1th on Sun May 07, 2017 7:05 am, edited 3 times in total.

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 1451
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Need advice for buying a used Leaf S in ARIZONA

Sat May 06, 2017 11:03 am

First, I am not sure you can get by with L1 charging for your 30-mile round trip commute. You will need somewhere between 12 and 16 hours to fully charge (depending upon freeway speed, A/C use, and the type of tires you have) with L1. Therefore, I recommend that you look in to options for L2 charging at home. You can easily handle you commute with performance tires (instead of the original low rolling resistance OEM tires) and as cold or warm (in "winter") as you like if you have L2 charging at home.

The manual states that not having annual battery checks could result in denial of warranty coverage, but I am not aware of any denials for that reason. The manual also indicates that keeping the car in 120 degrees F or higher for 24 hours continuous will void the battery warranty. We are OK in Phoenix because it cools off enough at night to avoid 24 hours continuous above 120 F. A concern for this limitation is if a body shop baked the car for 24 hours after painting without following Nissan's guidelines to remove the battery. The 2013 and later models are not part of the class action settlement so there is no issue about a previous owner opting out of coverage. Also, don't forget that a salvage title (or repairs that should have resulted in a salvage title) will void all remaining warranties on the car.

Since my 2015 is almost 27 months old and about to turn up 40k miles with 11 capacity bars left, I have my doubts that you could win the battery lottery with a 2015. You might have a chance with a 2013 or 2014, but don't count on it. The good news is that your commute is short enough so you could easily make it with A/C use even after losing several capacity bars. I made my 52-mile round trip commute (20 miles each way on I-17 and I-10) with 8 bars left on the 2011 before Nissan replaced the battery. I used A/C normally during the summer, but would not have been able to make it in the winter even without using the heat.

I understand your desire for HOV access because I really missed it while I was dealing with the insurance company and waiting for the 2015 after the crash. Your commute is ideal for a Leaf so I hope you find one that fits your needs.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

stea1th
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 6:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Feb 2017
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

Re: Need advice for buying used Leaf S in ARIZONA

Sat May 06, 2017 1:00 pm

Great information GerryAZ, especially the tip on L2 charging, thank you so much!! Look forward to seeing you in the carpool lane soon :D

Sandman333
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:13 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 410859
Location: Chandler, AZ

Re: Need advice for buying used Leaf S in ARIZONA

Mon May 08, 2017 2:07 pm

Hi there!

It looks like you have a handle on most of the issues. I went with a (June) 2013 SV off-lease from CA with 11 bars. Its battery warranty is valid until July 2018. I expect that the battery will be sufficient to cover my needs for many years to come (20 mile round trip), and probably won't be eligible for replacement unless I start abusing it. Since it is a late-2013, the battery should hold up pretty well.

I also recommend Level 2 charging at your house. 3kW charging could be necessary if you have a late night and an early morning. L1 120V charging is only good for ~4 miles per hour of charging, while 3kW L2 (can make use of a dryer circuit/plug) is good for ~12 miles per hour of charging.

I am glad I got a leaf with 6kW and QC, it allows my family to go on multiple long-ish trips in one day thanks to 24 miles per hour of charging. A Leaf with Quickcharge will also let you 'torture' the battery if you want to make it eligible for replacement sooner.

As an aside... I have an ebusbar 3kW L2 EVSE that I would love to sell cheap! Located in Chandler. It currently has a standard dryer plug on it. I used it for my first few months before I added a dedicated charging circuit to my house and upgraded to an Open EVSE.

One fantastic bonus in Arizona is never having to get emissions testing, and $20 per year registration!
Bought a 2013 SV with 20k miles on 1/10/2017!

stea1th
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 6:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Feb 2017
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

Re: Need advice for buying used Leaf S in ARIZONA

Mon May 08, 2017 9:41 pm

Thanks for the info. Sandman and taking time to respond to my post. I need to continue brushing up on charging options.

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 1451
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Need advice for buying used Leaf S in ARIZONA

Wed May 10, 2017 7:29 pm

Sandman333 wrote:One fantastic bonus in Arizona is never having to get emissions testing, and $20 per year registration!


Since no emissions test is required, you can renew the registration for 5 years. I renewed the registration on my 2015 in February (good through February 2022) for $46.36 total which is less than $10 per year.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

jjeff
Posts: 1456
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Need advice for buying used Leaf S in ARIZONA

Thu May 11, 2017 5:33 am

GerryAZ wrote:
Sandman333 wrote:One fantastic bonus in Arizona is never having to get emissions testing, and $20 per year registration!


Since no emissions test is required, you can renew the registration for 5 years. I renewed the registration on my 2015 in February (good through February 2022) for $46.36 total which is less than $10 per year.

If by registration you mean the yearly tabs, I pay 7x your $46, each year :shock: or 35x comparing 5 yr to 5yr :(
Yes for the privilege of putting tabs on my MN Leaf it would cost ~$1500 for 5 years! and we still don't have enough money for roads or public transportation! BTW a Tesla would be double my Leaf and no we can't purchase 5 years at a time, at our prices hardly anyone could afford it :cry:
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 1451
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Need advice for buying used Leaf S in ARIZONA

Thu May 11, 2017 6:45 am

Yes, that is the total fee for 5 years. The rate is intended to promote alternative fuel vehicles. I pay much more for my motorcycles and other ICE vehicles (also have emission test fees).
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

jjeff
Posts: 1456
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Need advice for buying used Leaf S in ARIZONA

Thu May 11, 2017 10:18 am

GerryAZ wrote:Yes, that is the total fee for 5 years. The rate is intended to promote alternative fuel vehicles. I pay much more for my motorcycles and other ICE vehicles (also have emission test fees).

I applaud your forward thinking state, mine OTH wants to add a $70?? yearly "EV" fee to our already outrageous tab fees! No wonder so many Minnesotans retire to AZ......that and the winter weather ;)
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

Bob
Posts: 291
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 7:13 pm
Delivery Date: 30 May 2013
Location: New Hampshire

Re: Need advice for buying used Leaf S in ARIZONA

Thu May 11, 2017 12:38 pm

You will probably get a good deal on a used Leaf and it will be ideal for your needs.

It should last at least another 5-8 years on the same battery if you only need 30 miles per day.

Keep in mind that the car will continue to devalue faster than a conventional car.

There are other Leaf owners in Phoenix. Someone may be willing to come with you to the seller and help you judge exact battery degradation with Leaf Spy on a smart phone and a CAN-Bluetooth adapter.

Bob

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