No regular commute but plenty of assorted errands: Leaf still suitable?

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freezingkiwis

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May 9, 2017
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There's a lot of discussion on these boards about regular commutes - a certain number of miles on a regular basis, with regular nightly charging - but what's the typical battery life when your driving habits are made up of completely random assorted trips?

Anything from 5miles to 50miles at a time. Some days no driving whatsover, some days multiple 20mile trips.

Does anyone have this sort of experience? Is it even better suited to these assorted random trips, or does regular usage with solid charging cycles in between suit the Leaf battery better?

Does it even matter at all? Can you maintain the battery life regardless?
 
Only you can really answer this, as you are most familiar with your usage patterns.

I would suggest that you go to plugshare.com, or install the app on your phone, and see if your usage patterns would lend themselves to L2 public charging.

If you buy an SV or SL, then you can add about 6 kWh to the pack per hour (roughly 25 miles of range per hour) of L2 charging, so you can top up fairly quickly.

If there are L3 (DCQC) options, and you buy a Leaf with a CHADEMO port, then you can top up MUCH quicker.
 
To answer your question, just look at the most miles you will ever travel in one day, then add 20% for the unexpected and for degradation. That number is what you need to look for in a car's range. The length of the trips isn't as important. I suggest you NOT assume partial recharges, for those days when you can't do them.
 
Allright, so no one can ever give a solid answer, and that's because the car, range, etc, can vary so much. I was in the same boat a couple months ago but I just went for it and bought a damn Leaf. They are dead cheap right now.

Here's my experience so far: Anyone who knows more please feel free to correct me. I'm still new and learning.

I get about 60 miles of stated range with 80% charging. Keep in mind that the last 20 miles are really not there. The charge gets below 20% at around 20-23 miles, which from my reading, you don't want to go below 20% or its bad for the battery. So really I have 40 miles a day of driving range.

Thats fine for me. I go 10 miles to work and back most days. I only have the level 1 stock EVSE cord. It's been fine so far. However, if I want to run an errand in the morning and drive to work and back I tend to run into the low charge/warning lights about battery level. I believe that if I want to use the car for more than to work and back I will need a level 2 charge system to be able to recoup enough range to use the car like I would a normal gas vehicle. The recharge on a lunch hour is unusable with the stock cord. It's not bad, just being realistic about what you can do.

I can make a 20 mile, 40 round trip, journey no problem. The car is very efficient. It's doing that and then running another trip in short order that kills the car for me.

I charge every other day. If i have 65 miles of range at 80% on Monday morning, I can do the 8.9 miles to work and back on Monday and Tuesday but I have to recharge Tuesday night to be able to make it the next day. Throw in one small trip outside those 20 or so miles and I start hitting the low range/charge limits. The car says I have 20+ miles to go but the warnings come on. I am also at 5.4 miles/kWh according to the car. I have no app to read the "real" values from the car. I am just going by the dash lights and meters.

Hope thats helpful. It's a great car and I really like mine but the range i have been getting is far below what is advertised and I drive like a granny. Just my experience so far.
 
@Bjorn1349, I don't know the health of your battery pack, but for sake of argument let's say you have 20kWh of useable battery capacity, since that's a nice round number...

If you are managing to eke out 5.4 miles/kWh, then you are doing really well - sounds like there aren't many hills on your usual routes. Each kWh represents roughly 5% of pack charge, so if you have 25% remaining charge on the dash then you can likely go another 20 miles before you hit the very low battery warning (at approx. 8% SOC). Again, not unlike with an ICE car, the low battery warning light doesn't mean your Leaf is about to die - you've got a good buffer before you really need to worry. If I remember, I reset my trip counter when the LBW light turns on.

I don't make a habit of hitting the VLBW, no more than I made a habit of running on fumes in my ICE car, but I don't worry about it if it happens once in awhile.

It's easy to let range anxiety ruin your enjoyment of the car, I choose not to let that happen...
 
A lot depends on the details of your situation. If you can have a level 2 charger (some will insist on calling it EVSE) at your home and your multiple trip days have half hour to an hour between them, you could find the car meets all your needs. If your area has decent public charging available, you might not need the home charging upgrade. And of course, if your area does have that, then your flexibility goes up further.

If you go with the 30kwh version with 107 mile range and only charge to 80%, that suggests 85 mile range when you start the day (best to assume no more than 70ish). If your longest trip is 50 miles round trip, you are in good shape on that. If it is 50 miles one way, 100 miles round trip, you will not likely be happy unless you have time and reliable access to charging at the far end. If you will do multiple 20 mile trips, you should be good for 3 of those, more if you can plug in between trips. If you know the day before and change the charging pattern to 100%, then 4 such trips should be a breeze. Plus any time you can plug in between your trips will give added flexibility/comfort. If you are looking at the 24kwh versions, you will need to be more cautious in your planning. Also, remember that batteries degrade over time. So if you want to keep it as your car for a long period, you will probably want to go with the higher range to start with.

One point of annoyance will be that they removed the ability to have the car stop charging at 80%. You can still get there using a little math and a timer but Nissan really needs to fix this.
 
The charge gets below 20% at around 20-23 miles, which from my reading, you don't want to go below 20% or its bad for the battery. So really I have 40 miles a day of driving range.

Actually, you can go down to the Low Battery Warning as often as you like, provided you recharge back over 20% immediately afterward. And lots of people drive to the Very Low Battery Warning regularly, with the same caveat - recharge right away, at least to 20-25%. I'd try to avoid going BELOW the VLBW, if only because you need LeafSpy running to tell you exactly how much juice and range you have, down that low. So you can safely use maybe 10 of those last 20-23 miles.
 
freezingkiwis said:
There's a lot of discussion on these boards about regular commutes - a certain number of miles on a regular basis, with regular nightly charging - but what's the typical battery life when your driving habits are made up of completely random assorted trips?

Anything from 5miles to 50miles at a time. Some days no driving whatsover, some days multiple 20mile trips.

Does anyone have this sort of experience? Is it even better suited to these assorted random trips, or does regular usage with solid charging cycles in between suit the Leaf battery better?

Does it even matter at all? Can you maintain the battery life regardless?

Where do you live/ what is your climate?

The only issue I have with multiple short trips is in the winter when I have passengers. I have small children in car seats, so I use the climate control to keep the cabin warm for them. The rear heated seats are useless. Climate control takes a huge hit on range at the beginning of the trip, much less so once things are up to temperature. Unfortunately, with many short trips (and no opportunity to plug in between them), I take that hit a lot and the heater is basically running at full tilt (6kW) the whole time the car is on.

Other than that, I have seen very little difference between many short trips and one long trip. In the summer time, my total range is the same in both cases.
 
I use my 2013 S for exactly what you stated - basically an in-town car for short errands, some highway etc. I can only tell you that after 3+ years and 16,000 miles, I have not dropped any bars. Some times I charge twice in one day, sometimes every 2-3 days depending on usage, sometimes it sits for 2-5 weeks while traveling with a 12 volt trickle charger. I routinely charge to 80% and have charged to 100% maybe 20 times in three years, never below 20%. The weather in CT is not extreme and my garage is never over 80 degrees in the summer, so I think conditions are quite favorable for battery health.

No guarantees but I would guess that my Leaf will be a 8-10 year car with the original battery, and by that time replacement batteries will be cheaper so I expect to go beyond that.
 
GetOffYourGas said:
The only issue I have with multiple short trips is in the winter when I have passengers. I have small children in car seats, so I use the climate control to keep the cabin warm for them. The rear heated seats are useless. Climate control takes a huge hit on range at the beginning of the trip, much less so once things are up to temperature. Unfortunately, with many short trips (and no opportunity to plug in between them), I take that hit a lot and the heater is basically running at full tilt (6kW) the whole time the car is on.

Other than that, I have seen very little difference between many short trips and one long trip. In the summer time, my total range is the same in both cases.
And that is a great argument for both having an L2 EVSE at home and preheating BEFORE you start out.

And more generally, my experience has been like yours. I see no great difference in range between several short trips or one longer trip - unless the difference is confounded by something like a substantial period at freeway speeds.
 
freezingkiwis said:
There's a lot of discussion on these boards about regular commutes - a certain number of miles on a regular basis, with regular nightly charging - but what's the typical battery life when your driving habits are made up of completely random assorted trips?

Anything from 5miles to 50miles at a time. Some days no driving whatsover, some days multiple 20mile trips.

Does anyone have this sort of experience? Is it even better suited to these assorted random trips, or does regular usage with solid charging cycles in between suit the Leaf battery better?

Does it even matter at all? Can you maintain the battery life regardless?

As a retired person I put very few miles on my EV. In nine months I have 6000 miles.

If 50 miles is one way you are pushing it. If it is round trip then it is doable. If not consider a longer range car like the Bolt.
 
Dooglas said:
GetOffYourGas said:
The only issue I have with multiple short trips is in the winter when I have passengers. I have small children in car seats, so I use the climate control to keep the cabin warm for them. The rear heated seats are useless. Climate control takes a huge hit on range at the beginning of the trip, much less so once things are up to temperature. Unfortunately, with many short trips (and no opportunity to plug in between them), I take that hit a lot and the heater is basically running at full tilt (6kW) the whole time the car is on.

Other than that, I have seen very little difference between many short trips and one long trip. In the summer time, my total range is the same in both cases.
And that is a great argument for both having an L2 EVSE at home and preheating BEFORE you start out.

And more generally, my experience has been like yours. I see no great difference in range between several short trips or one longer trip - unless the difference is confounded by something like a substantial period at freeway speeds.

I think you misunderstand me. Neither L2 at home nor preheating helps my case significantly. See the bolded part of my original statement.
 
I got my Leaf for my odd errand life style. Some days I drive it 2 miles, others 60, others 100 miles.

  • Have you kept record of your driving? I thought I was only driving about 5 miles per day average. Turns out I was doing a lot more.
  • When and where can you charge? Especially during the winter I take an hour long lunch break and charge off of L2 on a 40A EVSE. That throws on another 30% for the day.
  • How flexible are your errands? I can do a lot of mine another day or later the same day after a charge. Therefore I don't have range problems.
  • Do you know your errands in advance? If I know I'm going to have a lot going on for a certain day I charge to 100% and am more careful in driving efficiently. Otherwise I charge to 80%.
  • If you need to charge during the day, only charge to 80%. You'll get more distance for less charging time that way, even if you have to charge multiple times. So instead of taking a 3 hour luch to get to 100% for the rest of your afternoon, charge for an hour during lunch and then an hour for another break later on.
  • What options do you have for emergencies? How close is the hospital? How far out do you go? Can you call a friend or a taxi if need be? Is there a CHAdeMO station nearby? Would a foldup bicycle in the trunk be an option?
 
As others have said it really comes down to a total number of miles driven. My wife is a school nurse and runs between six schools depending on who calls her and whenever during the day. We have a VW TDI wagon and she was using that, it REALLY hated driving 5 miles stopping for and hour and driving 5 miles again. That is why we really started looking at Leaf's in the first place, they don't care about stopping starting, no warm up time. She drives between 20 and 120 miles, usually about 40 miles a day. She often runs home for lunch, also between schools, and we have low rate from noon to four in winter and she could charge for 30 minutes putting another 15% back in. My work happens to be towards the center of her schools as well and once in a while I will come out to find my car, the TDI, gone and a Leaf in it's spot with 10% left :) but enough for me to get home. So it works for us.

Honestly in the dead of winter if she can run 40 miles in the snow with low heat, enough to keep the windshield clear, she is lucky. In spring and fall she can run 70 miles with no heat, and if she can charge at lunch she can run another 15 on top of that, did I mention she drives fast ;)
 
It sounds to me like the OP was asking about battery longevity rather than range on a charge.

I run my own business and work at home. Car-wise it's a bit like being retired. There are times I won't drive for several days. Most days I try to get out, but it may only be a few miles to pick up groceries, home improvement supplies (no house project is complete without blood, sweat, tears, and at least three trips to Home Depot), or check the mail. Perhaps once a week I'll head to the municipal airport where I keep my airplane. That's a 35 mile round trip. Very occasionally I'll push the range of my 30 kWh battery and go out on a real drive, which may involve public charging.

In addition, the car is stored for six months at a time while I head to warmer weather for the winter.

So, no regular commute for me!

In a nutshell, I try to follow the recommendations for long battery life in the owner's manual. Primarily that is to avoid leaving the car sitting for extended periods at either full or low charge. I believe it also cautions against multiple DCQC per day.

For long term storage, 60% charge, unplugged, and connecting a Battery Minder on the lead-acid 12V worked out well. Last winter's storage didn't bother it one bit.

Now I've only had my car for a year and just over 3000 miles. Fact of the matter is all batteries degrade. It's a matter of how fast. Instead of debating synthetic vs natural oil, how often to change the oil, or what grade of gasoline to use, we EVers can talk about charging and driving habits. :)
 
I'm going on 45,000 miles and still have a full 12 bars of battery life left! The main thing is the heat. Keep it cool and it will last.

And as already mentioned, short trips all day long is where BEV's rock, especially in cool weather! For ICE vehicles the short trips, especially in cool weather, is what kills them. At the rate I'm going I'll be getting over 200,000 miles out of my Leaf and still have plenty of charge left to keep going and still getting 110 electric MPG! But I've seen multiple ICE vehicles having mechanical problems long before that due to driving them in the cold and constant starting and stopping. Plus that kind of driving is horrible for fuel mileage. I get about half the fuel mileage around town as I do on the highway in my ICE vehicle.
 
GetOffYourGas said:
I think you misunderstand me. Neither L2 at home nor preheating helps my case significantly. See the bolded part of my original statement.
It would certainly mean that your vehicle cabin would be warm when you left home. Are you saying that you take many short trips during the day, but your vehicle sits for a long period of time between each trip?
 
Dooglas said:
GetOffYourGas said:
I think you misunderstand me. Neither L2 at home nor preheating helps my case significantly. See the bolded part of my original statement.
It would certainly mean that your vehicle cabin would be warm when you left home. Are you saying that you take many short trips during the day, but your vehicle sits for a long period of time between each trip?

Yes. The vehicle sits for an hour or more between trips. When it is sub-zero out, that is more than long enough to completely cool off the car. Hence, it would not help significantly. It would help for the first 5-mile trip, but wouldn't help any subsequent trip. And I realize that this isn't the most common use of the car. But I will leave work to head the <3 miles home. I shuffle the kids into the car and immediately, drive 5 miles to take my daughter to gymnastics. An hour later, we are off to take my son to martial arts. An hour later, we're off again to the grocery store...

The OP mentioned frequent short trips without mentioning where he lives. I just bring it up as something that was unexpected to me, but makes perfect sense.
 
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